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Thread started 07/23/08 11:57am

seekingtruth

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Obama’s Head in the Sand

Obama’s Head in the Sand
Candidates’ differences on display in Iraq.

By Pete Hegseth

Five months ago, I returned to Iraq as an embedded journalist, some 18 months after I had completed a combat tour there. It was a worthwhile trip. I returned to Iraq to cover the progress the U.S. military had been making on the ground since the surge had begun. Mainstream-media coverage of the war had largely ignored the counterinsurgency’s success, rehearsing outdated notions of the conditions there. You could say I made the long trip to the front to cover an exposed domestic flank of American public opinion.

My fact-finding at the highest levels of strategic command and the lowest level of tactical implementation brought back into view the intricacies of the Iraq experience. What seems like a black-and-white situation on op-ed pages and in TV talking points in the United States is revealed as complex grayscale in Iraq.

So keeping one’s ear to the ground and eye on the facts in Iraq is exceedingly important. It takes real effort to cut through the spin and punditry; and if anyone spends too much time away, tempting platitudes like “we’ve already won” or “withdrawal immediately” creep into the lexicon, complicating one’s ability to tailor their positions to reality, rather than ideology.

Thus, trips to Iraq tend to be enlightening experiences — full of competing emotions, as long-held assumptions, good and bad, clash with self-evident realities on the ground. Any serious student of warfare, particularly of counterinsurgency, will know that every battlefield is fluid, and information that is relevant one day may be deceiving the next.

On Monday, Senator Obama finally had his wingtips on the ground in Iraq, to at last meet with U.S. brass and Iraqi leaders and get his dose of reality. He met with commanders on the ground who told him — as they recently told Fox News Sunday and the New York Times — that the timeline for withdrawal that Obama supports would be disastrous, both for the prospects of success in Iraq, and for strategic stability in the region.

Obama heard from Iraqi leaders, Maliki included, who told him the same thing — and who brandished their newfound reconciliation dramatically on Saturday, when the largest Sunni block rejoined the Iraqi parliament and cabinet.

And Obama heard from Iraqi and U.S. troops and from the citizens of Iraq who have all witnessed al-Qaeda’s attempts — both through their extremist rhetoric and maniacal deeds — to make Iraq the central front in their war against the West.

Despite these facts — however the mainstream media chooses to spin them — the operative question is: Will any of this matter to Obama?

I fear it won’t. He’s already shown that his version of fact-finding is to lay out an Iraq plan before going there. And while he conceded yesterday that there has been “enormous improvement” in security, Obama remains unwilling to concede change-I-can-believe-in on his three main Iraq tenets: timelines, political progress, and Iraq as a central front.

The statement he released after touching down in-country reiterates his misguided support for “a clear date” for withdrawal, his confused assertion that “political reconciliation continues to lag,” and his stubborn insistence that America must “refocus” our efforts in Afghanistan. Obama went so far as to tell an interviewer that he would oppose the surge again, despite the fact that the strategy that has saved countless American and Iraqi lives.

None of this is surprising. An Obama concession on these points would mean political damage-control for weeks. Still, I would like to be believe that Sen. Obama is capable of recognizing — and adapting his views on — the changed conditions in Iraq he is now seeing for the first time. A wartime posture demands this. But I doubt we’ll ever see it.

The sad reality of this trip is that Sen. Obama has now left Iraq more cemented in his ill-advised positions than ever before. He was willing to throw scraps to commanders and troops (“good job, guys”) but sought every opportunity to confirm that his policy views — which are as outdated as cassette tapes — had not changed.

The next question, then, is: Who will fact-check the fact-finder? Sen. Obama managed to praise the surge (which he fervently opposed), all the while calling for timelines, degrading Iraqi leaders, and pretending that al-Qaeda in Iraq doesn’t exist.

Contrast this with John McCain. Based on his visits to Iraq before the surge, he had the prescience to call for a new strategy and more troops. And despite running for president, he continued to make fact-finding trips to Iraq after the surge, and reported the success of the surge before anyone else. Sen. McCain went to Iraq to gather information that would inform his policy positions — not to “put lipstick on a pig,” as General Petraeus is apt to say.

In the days ahead, additional information will be made public on what General Petraeus and Senator Obama discussed. We'll see if Obama’s statements in the weeks and months ahead show whether his ideological approach to the Iraq war has been disturbed by any single fact on the ground.

— Captain Pete Hegseth, who served in Iraq with the 101st Airborne Division from 2005 to 2006, is chairman of Vets for Freedom.

True genius is knowing how little
you really know.

http://www.myspace.com/46757894
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Reply #1 posted 07/23/08 12:08pm

SupaFunkyOrgan
grinderSexy

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seekingtruth said:

— Captain Pete Hegseth, who served in Iraq with the 101st Airborne Division from 2005 to 2006, is chairman of Vets for Freedom.


Is this the current swiftboat group?

I stay Woke.

Two Fish 2008, Upstream/Downstream: Master Teacher, Healer, Leader, Of Hope, At Peace, To Sanctuary, In Redemption, Living Gifts unto Life and Light.

http://prince.org/msg/100/264513
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Reply #2 posted 07/23/08 12:09pm

2the9s

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Reply #3 posted 07/23/08 12:19pm

IrresistibleB1
tch

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seekingtruth said:



On Monday, Senator Obama finally had his wingtips on the ground in Iraq, to at last meet with U.S. brass and Iraqi leaders and get his dose of reality. He met with commanders on the ground who told him — as they recently told Fox News Sunday and the New York Times — that the timeline for withdrawal that Obama supports would be disastrous, both for the prospects of success in Iraq, and for strategic stability in the region.

Obama heard from Iraqi leaders, Maliki included, who told him the same thing — and who brandished their newfound reconciliation dramatically on Saturday, when the largest Sunni block rejoined the Iraqi parliament and cabinet.


well, i'm sorry, i just couldn't read past that big fat lie. the Spiegel story has been front and center in the last few days.

John McCain - putting the "ick" back in "maverick"
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Reply #4 posted 07/23/08 12:30pm

seekingtruth

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IrresistibleB1tch said:

seekingtruth said:



On Monday, Senator Obama finally had his wingtips on the ground in Iraq, to at last meet with U.S. brass and Iraqi leaders and get his dose of reality. He met with commanders on the ground who told him — as they recently told Fox News Sunday and the New York Times — that the timeline for withdrawal that Obama supports would be disastrous, both for the prospects of success in Iraq, and for strategic stability in the region.

Obama heard from Iraqi leaders, Maliki included, who told him the same thing — and who brandished their newfound reconciliation dramatically on Saturday, when the largest Sunni block rejoined the Iraqi parliament and cabinet.


well, i'm sorry, i just couldn't read past that big fat lie. the Spiegel story has been front and center in the last few days.


There are many conflicting reports on what is actually being said by the government of Iraq.

Of course, you guys shoot straight for the one that supports your assumptions.

True genius is knowing how little
you really know.

http://www.myspace.com/46757894
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Reply #5 posted 07/23/08 12:33pm

IrresistibleB1
tch

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seekingtruth said:

IrresistibleB1tch said:



well, i'm sorry, i just couldn't read past that big fat lie. the Spiegel story has been front and center in the last few days.


There are many conflicting reports on what is actually being said by the government of Iraq.

Of course, you guys shoot straight for the one that supports your assumptions.


no - in case you haven't heard yet - Maliki signed off on the Spiegel article, including its translation. he backpedaled after pressure from the White House, forcing the Spiegel to reveal that this is standard procedure.

John McCain - putting the "ick" back in "maverick"
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Reply #6 posted 07/23/08 12:35pm

SupaFunkyOrgan
grinderSexy

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seekingtruth said:

IrresistibleB1tch said:



well, i'm sorry, i just couldn't read past that big fat lie. the Spiegel story has been front and center in the last few days.


There are many conflicting reports on what is actually being said by the government of Iraq.

Of course, you guys shoot straight for the one that supports your assumptions.

Of course, you peddle whatever supports the lies that have been told since this war started.

I stay Woke.

Two Fish 2008, Upstream/Downstream: Master Teacher, Healer, Leader, Of Hope, At Peace, To Sanctuary, In Redemption, Living Gifts unto Life and Light.

http://prince.org/msg/100/264513
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Reply #7 posted 07/23/08 1:27pm

SUPRMAN

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Notice once again, this 'Captain" who has all this 'expertise' on Iraq still does not define what a victory in Iraq would look like.
Saying a withdrawal is a defeat, isn't saying what a victory is.
Is victory being able to stay 100 years? What is, and why can't anyone explain it?
They really expect us not to notice don't they?

"She said, 'You know, I go to these debates, and I'm just amazed at your grasp of issues and facts. You show up with no notecards; you just kind of spurt it out. But I look out over the audience, and I wonder: Is that really important?' -Palin
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Reply #8 posted 07/23/08 1:36pm

Graycap23

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SUPRMAN said:

Notice once again, this 'Captain" who has all this 'expertise' on Iraq still does not define what a victory in Iraq would look like.
Saying a withdrawal is a defeat, isn't saying what a victory is.
Is victory being able to stay 100 years? What is, and why can't anyone explain it?
They really expect us not to notice don't they?

They are NOT saying because victory can't be had in this situation.

Those that CONtrol the Education of the children, CONTROL the Future race.
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Reply #9 posted 07/23/08 2:18pm

JellyBean

Who is trying to spin the facts here, seekingtruth? U would think that with a name like that, you would want the truth rather spin.

The endorsement by Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki of Sen. Barack Obama's call for U.S. combat forces to leave Iraq by mid-2010 marks a serious setback to Sen. John McCain, who has tried hard to depict his Democratic rival as "naïve" on foreign policy, especially with respect to Iraq. Whose head is in the sand? One question; John McCain.

“Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservative.” John Stuart Mill
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Reply #10 posted 07/23/08 3:08pm

Lammastide

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seekingtruth said:

IrresistibleB1tch said:



well, i'm sorry, i just couldn't read past that big fat lie. the Spiegel story has been front and center in the last few days.


There are many conflicting reports on what is actually being said by the government of Iraq.

Of course, you guys shoot straight for the one that supports your assumptions.

...Said the guy who initiated the thread with a cut-and-paste supporting his own. lol

________________
"You know, life is too short... Let me bathe here in your smile."
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Reply #11 posted 07/23/08 3:52pm

Honey

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lol

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Reply #12 posted 07/23/08 4:14pm

Dance

Graycap23 said:

SUPRMAN said:

Notice once again, this 'Captain" who has all this 'expertise' on Iraq still does not define what a victory in Iraq would look like.
Saying a withdrawal is a defeat, isn't saying what a victory is.
Is victory being able to stay 100 years? What is, and why can't anyone explain it?
They really expect us not to notice don't they?

They are NOT saying because victory can't be had in this situation.


No, it's very clear that their victory is possible and what that would mean.

"victory" against "terrorists" = they get their oil, all the people living in areas that the US wants are dead and all others become wage slaves or scrap slaves

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Reply #13 posted 07/24/08 12:07am

SUPRMAN

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Dance said:

Graycap23 said:


They are NOT saying because victory can't be had in this situation.


No, it's very clear that their victory is possible and what that would mean.

"victory" against "terrorists" = they get their oil, all the people living in areas that the US wants are dead and all others become wage slaves or scrap slaves


Victory against terrorists? Northwestern Pakistan? Osama bin Ladin?

Iraq had nothing to do with to so called and misnamed (s/b war on terrorists, terror is a state of mind) war on terror. If we'd gotten bin Ladin within a year . . . you can bet we wouldn't have to worry about future attacks. We will find you and come get you is the message we should be sending, not let's play nice about the border. Just as 9/11 was asymmetrical so can the response. Besides, we pay Pakistan enough to get over brief border incursions to handle a problem they won't.

"She said, 'You know, I go to these debates, and I'm just amazed at your grasp of issues and facts. You show up with no notecards; you just kind of spurt it out. But I look out over the audience, and I wonder: Is that really important?' -Palin
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Reply #14 posted 07/25/08 4:20pm

Dance

SUPRMAN said:

Dance said:



No, it's very clear that their victory is possible and what that would mean.

"victory" against "terrorists" = they get their oil, all the people living in areas that the US wants are dead and all others become wage slaves or scrap slaves


Victory against terrorists? Northwestern Pakistan? Osama bin Ladin?

Iraq had nothing to do with to so called and misnamed (s/b war on terrorists, terror is a state of mind) war on terror. If we'd gotten bin Ladin within a year . . . you can bet we wouldn't have to worry about future attacks. We will find you and come get you is the message we should be sending, not let's play nice about the border. Just as 9/11 was asymmetrical so can the response. Besides, we pay Pakistan enough to get over brief border incursions to handle a problem they won't.




Pardon me sir, but

what in the name of mighty Geehovaa are you talking about?

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Reply #15 posted 07/25/08 4:30pm

SUPRMAN

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Dance said:

SUPRMAN said:



Victory against terrorists? Northwestern Pakistan? Osama bin Ladin?

Iraq had nothing to do with to so called and misnamed (s/b war on terrorists, terror is a state of mind) war on terror. If we'd gotten bin Ladin within a year . . . you can bet we wouldn't have to worry about future attacks. We will find you and come get you is the message we should be sending, not let's play nice about the border. Just as 9/11 was asymmetrical so can the response. Besides, we pay Pakistan enough to get over brief border incursions to handle a problem they won't.




Pardon me sir, but

what in the name of mighty Geehovaa are you talking about?


Victory against terrorists does not equal victory in Iraq.
Again, what does victory in Iraq look like?
No one here or elsewhere that I ask seems to be able to answer what is the fundamental question.
If you vote for McCain to secure victory in Iraq will you vote for him not knowing what a victory would look like?

"She said, 'You know, I go to these debates, and I'm just amazed at your grasp of issues and facts. You show up with no notecards; you just kind of spurt it out. But I look out over the audience, and I wonder: Is that really important?' -Palin
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Reply #16 posted 07/25/08 4:31pm

2the9s

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Dance said:

SUPRMAN said:



Victory against terrorists? Northwestern Pakistan? Osama bin Ladin?

Iraq had nothing to do with to so called and misnamed (s/b war on terrorists, terror is a state of mind) war on terror. If we'd gotten bin Ladin within a year . . . you can bet we wouldn't have to worry about future attacks. We will find you and come get you is the message we should be sending, not let's play nice about the border. Just as 9/11 was asymmetrical so can the response. Besides, we pay Pakistan enough to get over brief border incursions to handle a problem they won't.




Pardon me sir, but

what in the name of mighty Geehovaa are you talking about?


So you're one of those who still thinks that Saddam Hussein had something to do with 9-11 and that the war on Iraq actually helped against defeating those who would use terror against us?

I didn't think there were any more of you left! lol

This is like an episode of VH-1s "Remember the 2000s."

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Reply #17 posted 07/25/08 5:09pm

Dance

SUPRMAN said:

Dance said:





Pardon me sir, but

what in the name of mighty Geehovaa are you talking about?


Victory against terrorists does not equal victory in Iraq.
Again, what does victory in Iraq look like?
No one here or elsewhere that I ask seems to be able to answer what is the fundamental question.
If you vote for McCain to secure victory in Iraq will you vote for him not knowing what a victory would look like?


You clearly have no idea what the fuck I typed.

When you're ready to actually read something before responding, get at me.

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Reply #18 posted 07/25/08 5:12pm

2the9s

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Dance said:

SUPRMAN said:



Victory against terrorists does not equal victory in Iraq.
Again, what does victory in Iraq look like?
No one here or elsewhere that I ask seems to be able to answer what is the fundamental question.
If you vote for McCain to secure victory in Iraq will you vote for him not knowing what a victory would look like?


You clearly have no idea what the fuck I typed.

When you're ready to actually read something before responding, get at me.


Wow. Your "Pardon me sirs" turned to "fucks" real quickly.

What is this, the Senate floor?

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