Oh, c'mon -- living without a husband or wife is hardly the same as living without human companionship!

I have many wonderful friends. I have family. I'm rarely lonely.

But I cannot imagine how lonely it would feel to have a mate who wasn't going the same direction I was in life. A life with constant conflict and distress would hardly be worth living.

This is a topic that I've stayed out of because I found myself pondering this very question for the past few weeks. In fact, I found it very ironic that this topic came up at a time when I was/am so focused upon it. What I've discovered is that I have no answers for it. Yet. I am very spiritual. My idea of a good time on a Saturday night is a good book by Alan Watts, or spiritual music, and meditating. My husband is not so spiritual, and dabbles with the idea of spirituality. I find that as I go deeper within the Spiritual, there is so much that I would love to share with my husband, but know that he doesn't "get it". For instance, I may read a passage in a book that really just jumps out at me and I get excited and want to share it! He will give me that look. You know, the humor her look and pretend you know what the heck she is talking about. And there are other elements within the Divine Spirit that I would love to share with him, but know that I can't. And it makes it hard sometimes because this spiritual undertaking is extremely important to me, in fact the most important aspect of my life. And sometimes I feel sad because I want to share that part of my life, that part of me, with someone but my spiritual journey isn't dependent upon sharing that part of me/of my life with anyone. It is what it is.

But having said all of that, there are things that he brings to the table that I appreciate and value. He's a stickler for time. I'm a "fly by the seat of my pants" type of person who doesn't even wear a watch unless I have to. If I'm reading a spiritual text, or focused upon something so Divinely inspired, I can lose all sense of time, and he's there reminding me of it. I would never get anywhere if he wasn't pressuring me about the time. And he has to plan everything, I rarely plan and tend to go more on impulse. I may eat one meal a day, and sometimes I won't even do that, unless he reminds me "Honey have you eaten anything at all today?" Hmmm, "nope". (I've never been a big eater.)

And maybe we aren't "evenly yoked", but he's in my life for a reason and I do love him. Someone above said that they would "not fall in love" with someone outside of their religion, would not even give love a chance. And to that I say, you can't help who you love or who you fall in love with. Love happens, it's not something that can be controlled, and if it can be, then it's not love. When I fell in love with someone, it wasn't planned, contrived in any way, and it wasn't wanted! () but rather it was something that spontaneously arose, that responded I guess to the energy between him and I. And it's just there, and is not dependent upon their spiritual status, or education, or however else one views another or judges someone to be worthy or not of their love. Love is spontaneous.

Uhope said:

Compromise is the essence of peaceful human co-habitation. Many people would marry the one they love even if they differed on their desire for children. People who are dogmatic and convinced of their righteousness (in whatever form, religious or otherewise) cause bloodshed...
[Edited 7/21/08 18:32pm]

razor said:

For what it's worth, I don't give a damn if you or anyone else here believes he meets all of my criteria or not.

And as far as companionship is concerned, I don't need a relationship for that. My life is full with or without a man. I have friends I love and we hang out and talk when I want companionship.

razor said:

If someone marries someone who doesn't want kids but they do, that can cuase major drama. Something as importnat as bringing children into a relationship should be discussed early on, in my humble opinion.

Stymie said:

The lady doth protest too much. That one obviously simmered since your last reply . Your man is not for companionship then?

Uhope said:

Exactly and I don't see why people put up with it.

razor said:

No, this issue has come up on the Org before and apparently people don't believe you can find all you are looking for in one person, like it's impossible and no, it didn't simmer.

It's just my truth and I can't prove it to anyone unless they know me very well. While a man may be for companionship, he is not my whole life and do not separate myself from the other types of companionship, my friends, when I am involved with someone.

Stymie said:

That's my point. They all claim to be Christian. They all claim to love God and Jesus, yet they are all different. So, having the "core values" of being a believer and loving God mean nothing when it comes to religion.

Not only a good discription of any marriage (with all the spiritual agreement in the world ), but a great discription of love. If its chosen it ain't love..

Stymie said:

There seems to be an assumption here that people with their own directions are inherently miserable as a couple. Just not true. What people are really saying is that they could not abide a partner that may have different views to them. This says more about their close-mindedness than anything else...

Janfriend said:

People do convert but shouldn't they do so because they've come to believe and accept the tenets of a faith and dedicate themselves to God? Not just so that they can get a particular mate?

The "love of my life" will share my values before I meet him. I don't want him changing their core beliefs to please me any more than I would to please him. In all honesty, my beliefs shape who I am, my outlook on life. If I sold short on any of them, I wouldn't be the same person.

To me, it's a bit more deep than trying a different food or moving to another town. My beliefs truly matter to me.

razor said:

Oh, believe me -- there is PLENTY of spicy intellectual and emotional challenge within marriages between Jehovah's Witnesses!

What there isn't is sadness or frustration because one mate isn't inclined to attend meetings/assemblies/conventions or participate in the ministry with the other; tension because one wants holidays/birthdays observed and the other feels it will violate his/her conscience. Unspeakable drama if one cannot support the other regarding medical treatment if blood transfusion becomes an issue for them or their children. One who doesn't agree with the other regarding the future of government/mankind -- political involvement or waiting on Jehovah's Kingdom.

As I mentioned earlier, the list could go on. These things are important to Jehovah's Witnesses and there aren't any other religious groups (or non-religious persons) who could really "vibe" with an active, faithful JW.

To a different or lesser degree, there could be similar issues between any two people who don't share similar perspectives and value systems. How would a marriage work between the devout Muslim woman in the thread here and a devout Christian? One or the other would have to compromise something and that's not generally a good thing regarding one's core values.

There are plenty of people out there who won't cause a person to compromise something valuable to them -- those are the ones who will be good mates for each other. Marriage can be challenging enough without knowing from the get-go that specific problems will come up.

razor said:

Once again with this comment and your other one to me, you try to draw conclusions about me when you have no idea. So

Uhope said:

I know someone who is JW and married a non-JW and they've been happily married for almost 40 years

This is a topic that I've stayed out of because I found myself pondering this very question for the past few weeks. In fact, I found it very ironic that this topic came up at a time when I was/am so focused upon it. What I've discovered is that I have no answers for it. Yet. I am very spiritual. My idea of a good time on a Saturday night is a good book by Alan Watts, or spiritual music, and meditating. My husband is not so spiritual, and dabbles with the idea of spirituality. I find that as I go deeper within the Spiritual, there is so much that I would love to share with my husband, but know that he doesn't "get it". For instance, I may read a passage in a book that really just jumps out at me and I get excited and want to share it! He will give me that look. You know, the humor her look and pretend you know what the heck she is talking about. And there are other elements within the Divine Spirit that I would love to share with him, but know that I can't. And it makes it hard sometimes because this spiritual undertaking is extremely important to me, in fact the most important aspect of my life. And sometimes I feel sad because I want to share that part of my life, that part of me, with someone but my spiritual journey isn't dependent upon sharing that part of me/of my life with anyone. It is what it is.

But having said all of that, there are things that he brings to the table that I appreciate and value. He's a stickler for time. I'm a "fly by the seat of my pants" type of person who doesn't even wear a watch unless I have to. If I'm reading a spiritual text, or focused upon something so Divinely inspired, I can lose all sense of time, and he's there reminding me of it. I would never get anywhere if he wasn't pressuring me about the time. And he has to plan everything, I rarely plan and tend to go more on impulse. I may eat one meal a day, and sometimes I won't even do that, unless he reminds me "Honey have you eaten anything at all today?" Hmmm, "nope". (I've never been a big eater.)

And maybe we aren't "evenly yoked", but he's in my life for a reason and I do love him. Someone above said that they would "not fall in love" with someone outside of their religion, would not even give love a chance. And to that I say, you can't help who you love or who you fall in love with. Love happens, it's not something that can be controlled, and if it can be, then it's not love. When I fell in love with someone, it wasn't planned, contrived in any way, and it wasn't wanted! () but rather it was something that spontaneously arose, that responded I guess to the energy between him and I. And it's just there, and is not dependent upon their spiritual status, or education, or however else one views another or judges someone to be worthy or not of their love. Love is spontaneous.

I know someone who is JW and married a non-JW and they've been happily married for almost 40 years

Janfriend said:

Was the JW one before he/she married or did they become one after they married?

And I have no doubt that they have a measure of happiness; love can be a grand thing!

However, I guarantee that the non-JW is not sharing in the JWs activities as much as would be desired and that is a very real lack in a JWs life. And it's a pretty sure bet that the JWs fondest wish is that their mate would join them in their worship. It's a most important thing to share.

LittleRedCorvette said:

No -- I believe you likely are evenly yoked in the ways that are most important to you. Yours sounds like a lovely relationship.

The feelings you mention earlier about wishing to share your spiritual journey and not being able to in the preferred depth -- that's a bit of how it is for a JW to be married to a non-Witness. Just magnify it to include not sharing -- as a couple or family -- three meetings a week, religious literature and Bible study to keep up with daily, three major assemblies a year, one which may be far from home, participation in door-to-door and other ministry as often as possible. To do that alone while one's mate is either indifferent or outright opposed is a daily sadness that is not possible to ignore or get over. They simply endure. We are busy people, our faith is active! And take our work very seriously, as part of our worship and devotion to God, not just something to do.

However, I must respectfully disagree with the notion that a person cannot help whom they fall in love with. Sure you can! We may see someone who's instantly attractive, interesting, sexy, etc. But love, true love, is something that develops and is cultivated over time and association. We choose to invest that kind of time in someone. If we know in advance that this person has vastly different values, looks for guidance from a source that conflicts with ours, or is not appropriate in some other way, there's no need to continue that association. LRC, if you REALLY didn't want or were not open to a relationship, you would not have had one. But you "responded"; you chose to. Sure, we may feel a little pang at the loss of the surface feelings but a mature person can use a foresight based on what they know already to avoid unnecessary drama. There's a great scripture that can be applied to this scenario, Proverbs 22:3. It says, "Shrewd is the one that has seen the calamity and proceeds to conceal himself, but the inexperienced have passed along and must suffer the penalty." Never be hasty!

Many couples who've broken up can say that there were elements about their mate that disturbed them or knew weren't going to work when they were first getting to know each other but love (lust?) made them ignore very real issues. Hindsight can be 20/20 but I believe it is possible to make wise decisions about a mate ahead of time if one is clear and comfortable with what they believe in and value and look for mates that can truly support their "soul".

I'm fine with not being the perfect mate for every guy out there and I doggone WELL know every one is not perfect for me! My reasons vary from shallow to extremely deep and essential but they are my right to have and I believe everyone should have their own.

Uhope said:

What I am saying Uhope about not helping who we fall in love with is simply this: You develop a relationship with a friend, you spend time together, develop that friendship, but you do not go into that friendship thinking to yourself "Oh I'm taking this time with him and am going to fall in love with him." Love spontaneously arises. One day, after spending time with your friend, after developing this friendship and companionship, you realize "Hey, I'm in love with him." It wasn't something planned from the beginning, it wasn't contrived, it happened. I have shared time with friends in the past, developed those friendly relationships, and have not shared that deep, passionate love towards them, while I did love them, I wasn't in love with them. While I thought they would make a great husband (for someone else) eventually, I knew I was not the one for them or they for me. And I have shared time with a friend, developed that friendship, and woke up one morning and realized that I am in love with him. It wasn't planned, it wasn't contrived, it wasn't something that I could prevent myself from doing. Love happened.

LittleRedCorvette said:

It's rare that JWs have friends outside the faith

Janfriend said:

I know this, but what I am saying is that even within having a friend of the same religious faith does not preclude that you will fall in love with that friend regardless of how you cultivate that relationship. And you can cultivate a friendship with someone of the same faith and fall in love. It's not something that one plans though, and it is something that is spontaneous.

LittleRedCorvette said:

They plan it on eHarmony

Uhope said:

The wife was born and raised in the JW faith. She, however wasn't an extreme JW and her husband had no problem with her raising the children as JWs since he was really religious. The wife's mother was very devout and lived in the same home with the family, but from what I know she and the children stopped going to meetings, but still held on to certain beliefs. Once the children were adults, the wife started going to meeting again, but I don't think she does door to door;. The husband started going to meetings 3 years ago, but it's not consistent

Anyway, that's just one couple I know like that. I know others and for some JWs I know they don't care what their spouse does as long as they can raise the children as JWs. I really don't appreciate the double standards of that faith. They have no problem with people converting to their faith, but don't let it be the other way around. I believe if you want to be heard, you need to be willing to listen too

What I am saying Uhope about not helping who we fall in love with is simply this: You develop a relationship with a friend, you spend time together, develop that friendship, but you do not go into that friendship thinking to yourself "Oh I'm taking this time with him and am going to fall in love with him." Love spontaneously arises. One day, after spending time with your friend, after developing this friendship and companionship, you realize "Hey, I'm in love with him." It wasn't something planned from the beginning, it wasn't contrived, it happened. I have shared time with friends in the past, developed those friendly relationships, and have not shared that deep, passionate love towards them, while I did love them, I wasn't in love with them. While I thought they would make a great husband (for someone else) eventually, I knew I was not the one for them or they for me. And I have shared time with a friend, developed that friendship, and woke up one morning and realized that I am in love with him. It wasn't planned, it wasn't contrived, it wasn't something that I could prevent myself from doing. Love happened.

You also mentioned that my husband and I are evenly yoked in the ways that are important to me, however, the most important thing to me is my spirituality. This is why I said he and I are probably not evenly yoked. My spiritual practices are very active, very involved as well. From your post, there seems to be a bit of arrogance in the assumption that because you are a JW that your practice includes more involvement, or that somehow my spiritual practice is not as important as the JW faith and their involvement with their daily practices. You are assuming that the sadness that a JW feels with the lack of involvement in their spouse is magnified compared to what I might feel regarding my husband's lack of involvement. Hmm, I guess you truly just do not understand the depth of involvement that a Zen Buddhist undertakes in their spiritual journey.

Uhope said:

Exactly and I don't see why people put up with it.

Flowerz said:

And the faithful on here say religion isn't inherently devisive. Clearly not...

Janfriend said:

Regarding your first paragraph, it's evident that your friend did not hold her spiritual life as more important than choosing a mate who would share that spirituality with her. You didn't mention if she was actually baptized; not every person brought up as a Witness gets baptized. Therefore, they are not actually Jehovah's Witnesses.

Something else telling -- the mother and children stopped attending meetings. Having a JW husband/father; that would not likely have happened. It's great that the mother is attending meetings again but if she is not preaching -- witnessing -- she is not counted as such. Our census is only of those actively participating in the preaching work.

Regarding the bit I bolded -- I find that rather hard to believe. I've been a JW for 30 years and have NEVER met an active JW husband or wife who didn't care what their mate did as long as they could bring the kids to the meeting. The chances of successfully raising children to make the faith their own depend much upon the united front of both parents. Simply being at meetings is not enough. And the division in the household impacts the children even if they do choose to become Jehovah's Witnesses.

Really, it's not a double standard. Jehovah's Witnesses believe they have found the truth about God's purposes, choose to stick with it and are happy to share what they've learned from the Bible with others. Others can choose to listen or not. We listen to all of the people we meet in our ministry; incredible conversations. Most of Jehovah's Witnesses came from other religions that were not satisfactory to them in some way -- why would they feel inclined to go searching again?

Of course, if they want to, they can. The beauty of free will. But feeling the need to sell out one's beliefs for a mate is not a positive move, IMO.