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Forums > Politics & Religion > Elvis a racist?
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Thread started 03/20/08 5:52pm

fluid

Elvis a racist?

[color=violet]There was talk 15 years ago that Elvis was really a racist. He didn't seemmean or at all racist. Although some people strongly say it there's strong evidence not so.

First he had black background singers singing along side him. Secondly he did a black soulful version of music. 2 things a racist white person would hardly do. So tell me is it true and if not where did the rumours come from?
Working up a purple sweat.
Reply #1 posted 03/20/08 5:53pm

ehuffnsd

yay it's time for the quarterly was Elvis a racist thread!!!!!
You CANNOT use the name of God, or religion, to justify acts of violence, to hurt, to hate, to discriminate- Madonna
authentic power is service- Pope Francis
Reply #2 posted 03/20/08 6:01pm

Fury

music motherfuck him and john wayne music public enemy
Reply #3 posted 03/20/08 6:16pm

mynameisnotsusan

Took this quote from Wikipedia

=====

Controversial king

Main article: Cultural impact of Elvis Presley

When "That's All Right" was played, many listeners were sure Presley must be black, and most white disc-jockeys wouldn't play his Sun singles. However, black disc-jockeys didn't want anything to do with a record made by a white man.[72] To some, Presley had undoubtedly "stolen" or at least "derived his style from the Negro rhythm-and-blues performers of the late 1940s."[73] Some black entertainers, notably Jackie Wilson, countered, "A lot of people have accused Elvis of stealing the black man’s music, when in fact, almost every black solo entertainer copied his stage mannerisms from Elvis."
Reply #4 posted 03/20/08 6:34pm

Timmy84

They had claimed Elvis said "only thing a Negro can do is shine my shoes" on some interview that was never confirmed or was even proven to be a fact. Elvis himself had to address JET magazine in 1957 saying that he didn't have a racist bone in his body. And I'll say this, if he did "steal black music", where's the outrage for Bill Haley, Buddy Holly, Carl Perkins and Jerry Lee Lewis then? lol

I think it's because Elvis' popularity was so massive that that's why there were all these things said about him.
Reply #5 posted 03/20/08 7:27pm

chocolate1

Timmy84 said:

They had claimed Elvis said "only thing a Negro can do is shine my shoes" on some interview that was never confirmed or was even proven to be a fact. Elvis himself had to address JET magazine in 1957 saying that he didn't have a racist bone in his body. And I'll say this, if he did "steal black music", where's the outrage for Bill Haley, Buddy Holly, Carl Perkins and Jerry Lee Lewis then? lol

I think it's because Elvis' popularity was so massive that that's why there were all these things said about him.



My Mom, who grew up in the 50s, has been telling us that one for years. If U say "Elvis", she says...
Then she starts in on John Wayne and Lucille Ball. shrug

"Love Hurts.
Your lies, they cut me.
Now your words don't mean a thing.
I don't give a damn if you ever loved me..."

-Cher, "Woman's World"
Reply #6 posted 03/20/08 7:33pm

raveun2thejoyfantastic

Elvis Presley loved to sneak out just 2 go into the black church & watch them sing gospel...He sang gospel & soul music by black artists himself...He was close friends with James Brown...neutral
eye wish U were here baby, on me--
Stuck like glue! heart
Reply #7 posted 03/20/08 8:38pm

SCNDLS

He was doing more than going to black churches for the gospel music. Elvis kept a black lady I know as a mistress for many years and bought her a house. This OF COURSE doesn't mean he wasn't a racist but he definitely was into the sistas too. wink
Reply #8 posted 03/20/08 9:21pm

VinnyM27

I was wonder what would have happened if Elivis lived musically....Would he have sold out and put out the expected disco album? I'm sure there would be more than one duets album out there by now. And it would have been interesting to see and hear if he would have given credit/homage to the black rock, R&B, and blues that came before and was certainly of some inspiration. Almost would have had to.
Reply #9 posted 03/21/08 1:38am

Tosh

Actually this man was racist, most of the time undercover.
Back in the day mine uncle was living in South America, he was working at a airport. Elvis was on board on his way to the States or Europe. And he ask him is he wanted to leave the airplane because it would have take a while befor the could depart. Elvis response was. I'm not going to leave the plane. Isn't this a land of apes".
Reply #10 posted 03/21/08 2:32am

novabrkr

Elvis wasn't a rocket scientist.
Reply #11 posted 03/21/08 4:37am

SoulAlive

VinnyM27 said:

I was wonder what would have happened if Elivis lived musically....Would he have sold out and put out the expected disco album? I'm sure there would be more than one duets album out there by now. And it would have been interesting to see and hear if he would have given credit/homage to the black rock, R&B, and blues that came before and was certainly of some inspiration. Almost would have had to.


I always wonder about this too.Elvis died in the summer of 1977,just before the disco phenomenom took hold.I wonder what kind of record he would have released in 1979? lol By that time,even Elton John was doing disco,lol.

Similarly,if the Beatles hadn't broke up in 1970,I wonder how their music might have evolved throughout the 70s.By the late 70s,would they had been doing disco too? LOL
Reply #12 posted 03/21/08 5:04am

WildStyle

VinnyM27 said:

And it would have been interesting to see and hear if he would have given credit/homage to the black rock, R&B, and blues that came before and was certainly of some inspiration. Almost would have had to.

He did numerous times. The most famous being during the 68 "Comeback" Special.
Reply #13 posted 03/21/08 5:15am

Shapeshifter

Not this shit AGAIN ....

Look, read this ...

http://www.elvis.com.au/presley/peter_guralnick__elvis_racist.shtml


.... and let's go back to five five new threads about Janet's coffee enemas already!
There are three sides to every story. My side, your side, and the truth. And no one is lying. Memories shared serve each one differently
Reply #14 posted 03/21/08 6:05am

Rhondab

ehuffnsd said:

yay it's time for the quarterly was Elvis a racist thread!!!!!



lol
Reply #15 posted 03/21/08 7:23am

FuNkeNsteiN

Not this shit again... lol
It is not known why FuNkeNsteiN capitalizes his name as he does, though some speculate sunlight deficiency caused by the most pimpified white guy afro in Nordic history.

- Lammastide
Reply #16 posted 03/21/08 8:13am

namepeace

I think the shoe shine story (which I heard many times, as my parents grew up in Memphis during that time) has been discredited.

My mother used to work at the Daisy movie theater in Memphis. She said black folks would pack the joint (during the "colored only" shows) for Presley's flicks, and would sing along to the songs. There are thousands of apocryphal stories around Memphis about Elvis, good and bad. Depending on who you talk to, he was a racist or an integrationist.

I also read a quote from him where, a little overwhelmed by his success, noted that he was only doing what he saw "colored" musicians doing.

And FWIW, I do believe Chuck D apologized for the famous "EL-vis" line.

I used to believe he might have been a racist. Now, I'm more of a skeptic.

twocents
Props will be withheld until the showing and proving has commenced. -- Aaron McGruder
Reply #17 posted 03/21/08 8:33am

HamsterHuey

fluid said:

Elvis a racist?


Yeah, him and Abe Lincoln. Prince said so.
Reply #18 posted 03/21/08 1:43pm

fluid

Tosh said:

Actually this man was racist, most of the time undercover.
Back in the day mine uncle was living in South America, he was working at a airport. Elvis was on board on his way to the States or Europe. And he ask him is he wanted to leave the airplane because it would have take a while befor the could depart. Elvis response was. I'm not going to leave the plane. Isn't this a land of apes".



There have been threads on this and there are apes in South America.
Working up a purple sweat.
Reply #19 posted 03/21/08 2:11pm

Shapeshifter

namepeace said:

I think the shoe shine story (which I heard many times, as my parents grew up in Memphis during that time) has been discredited.

My mother used to work at the Daisy movie theater in Memphis. She said black folks would pack the joint (during the "colored only" shows) for Presley's flicks, and would sing along to the songs. There are thousands of apocryphal stories around Memphis about Elvis, good and bad. Depending on who you talk to, he was a racist or an integrationist.

I also read a quote from him where, a little overwhelmed by his success, noted that he was only doing what he saw "colored" musicians doing.

And FWIW, I do believe Chuck D apologized for the famous "EL-vis" line.

I used to believe he might have been a racist. Now, I'm more of a skeptic.

twocents



Chuck D has indeed apologized for that line. He took it back. Anyone who still believes Elvis is a racist should read Peter Guralnick's brilliant biographies of him, or click on the link I posted.
There are three sides to every story. My side, your side, and the truth. And no one is lying. Memories shared serve each one differently
Reply #20 posted 03/21/08 2:37pm

Dance

mynameisnotsusan said:

Took this quote from Wikipedia

=====

Controversial king

Main article: Cultural impact of Elvis Presley

When "That's All Right" was played, many listeners were sure Presley must be black, and most white disc-jockeys wouldn't play his Sun singles. However, black disc-jockeys didn't want anything to do with a record made by a white man.[72] To some, Presley had undoubtedly "stolen" or at least "derived his style from the Negro rhythm-and-blues performers of the late 1940s."[73] Some black entertainers, notably Jackie Wilson, countered, "A lot of people have accused Elvis of stealing the black man’s music, when in fact, almost every black solo entertainer copied his stage mannerisms from Elvis."


I don't know if it's true, but there are many who claim Elvis pretty much took care of Jackie in his last days.

He was paying medical bills and visiting him and helping him out... shrug
Reply #21 posted 03/21/08 2:50pm

Timmy84

Shapeshifter said:

namepeace said:

I think the shoe shine story (which I heard many times, as my parents grew up in Memphis during that time) has been discredited.

My mother used to work at the Daisy movie theater in Memphis. She said black folks would pack the joint (during the "colored only" shows) for Presley's flicks, and would sing along to the songs. There are thousands of apocryphal stories around Memphis about Elvis, good and bad. Depending on who you talk to, he was a racist or an integrationist.

I also read a quote from him where, a little overwhelmed by his success, noted that he was only doing what he saw "colored" musicians doing.

And FWIW, I do believe Chuck D apologized for the famous "EL-vis" line.

I used to believe he might have been a racist. Now, I'm more of a skeptic.

twocents



Chuck D has indeed apologized for that line. He took it back. Anyone who still believes Elvis is a racist should read Peter Guralnick's brilliant biographies of him, or click on the link I posted.


I read about that on Elvis Info.net and they cleared that up with the quickness. James Brown, a proud black man, made comments about how Elvis was his "soul brother".
Reply #22 posted 03/21/08 3:15pm

Dance

Timmy84 said:

Shapeshifter said:




Chuck D has indeed apologized for that line. He took it back. Anyone who still believes Elvis is a racist should read Peter Guralnick's brilliant biographies of him, or click on the link I posted.


I read about that on Elvis Info.net and they cleared that up with the quickness. James Brown, a proud black man, made comments about how Elvis was his "soul brother".


Was he sober at the time?
Reply #23 posted 03/21/08 3:17pm

Timmy84

Dance said:

Timmy84 said:



I read about that on Elvis Info.net and they cleared that up with the quickness. James Brown, a proud black man, made comments about how Elvis was his "soul brother".


Was he sober at the time?


I don't think he was into PCP at the time, no. biggrin
Reply #24 posted 03/21/08 3:17pm

Miles

Timmy84 said:

Shapeshifter said:




Chuck D has indeed apologized for that line. He took it back. Anyone who still believes Elvis is a racist should read Peter Guralnick's brilliant biographies of him, or click on the link I posted.


I read about that on Elvis Info.net and they cleared that up with the quickness. James Brown, a proud black man, made comments about how Elvis was his "soul brother".


I've said this before on here and I'll say it again. The day after Elvis died, James Brown dropped everything he was doing and flew specially to Memphis and went down to Graceland. He got in and told the family and guys there, 'I want to see him'. James was the only celebrity allowed to spend time alone with the body. This is well known and appears in the Guralnick biography of Elvis too.

There are also countless positive comments about Elvis on record from many many black artists of Elvis' generation and the one before, ranging from Howlin' Wolf to BB King to Little Richard.

It seems correct to say that Elvis came from a background that was institutionally racist, but that, while having occasionally conflicted views on race, like many people in those conflicted times, he always made a point of giving credit to the black artists who inspired him and money to black charities and churches and such. He wanted to work with black gospel singers in the late '60s.He worked with the Sweet Inspirations from 1969 - '77, who also worked with Aretha. They were close to him, and none of them have made any comment that he was racist towards them or generally.

The racist Elvis is a myth. If anything, in what he actually achieved musically and culturally, he was squarely in the Martin Luther King integrationist camp, even if Elvis would probably not have viewed it that way, thinking of himself simply as an entertainer. smile.
Give me three D vision
And the California blues
Me I funk but I don't care
I ain't no square with my corkscrew hair - Marc Bolan'
Reply #25 posted 03/21/08 3:23pm

Timmy84

Miles said:

Timmy84 said:



I read about that on Elvis Info.net and they cleared that up with the quickness. James Brown, a proud black man, made comments about how Elvis was his "soul brother".


I've said this before on here and I'll say it again. The day after Elvis died, James Brown dropped everything he was doing and flew specially to Memphis and went down to Graceland. He got in and told the family and guys there, 'I want to see him'. James was the only celebrity allowed to spend time alone with the body. This is well known and appears in the Guralnick biography of Elvis too.

There are also countless positive comments about Elvis on record from many many black artists of Elvis' generation and the one before, ranging from Howlin' Wolf to BB King to Little Richard.

It seems correct to say that Elvis came from a background that was institutionally racist, but that, while having occasionally conflicted views on race, like many people in those conflicted times, he always made a point of giving credit to the black artists who inspired him and money to black charities and churches and such. He wanted to work with black gospel singers in the late '60s.He worked with the Sweet Inspirations from 1969 - '77, who also worked with Aretha. They were close to him, and none of them have made any comment that he was racist towards them or generally.

The racist Elvis is a myth. If anything, in what he actually achieved musically and culturally, he was squarely in the Martin Luther King integrationist camp, even if Elvis would probably not have viewed it that way, thinking of himself simply as an entertainer. smile.


Yeah that was what I read that James stopped everything and came to Memphis to see him. He was one of the few celebrities to attend his funeral too.
Reply #26 posted 03/21/08 3:25pm

Dance

I don't believe the guy was going to rallies back in the day(as an adult), but you have to seperate admiration for artists and actual respect for human beings and that goes for all people.

You also have to understand that people will play whatever politics game they have to so they can continue to coast or just eat and that includes all people. Some just can't be bothered.

I've heard some artists say one thing one minute then completely flip the next.

Anyway, I wish the guys he imitated got a speck of the shine he did even up to now.
Reply #27 posted 03/21/08 3:32pm

Timmy84

Dance said:

I don't believe the guy was going to rallies back in the day(as an adult), but you have to seperate admiration for artists and actual respect for human beings and that goes for all people.

You also have to understand that people will play whatever politics game they have to so they can continue to coast or just eat and that includes all people. Some just can't be bothered.

I've heard some artists say one thing one minute then completely flip the next.

Anyway, I wish the guys he imitated got a speck of the shine he did even up to now.


I know Otis Blackwell got some props before he died when they realized he was the guy behind some of Elvis' biggest hits.
Reply #28 posted 03/21/08 3:44pm

Dance

Timmy84 said:

I know Otis Blackwell got some props before he died when they realized he was the guy behind some of Elvis' biggest hits.


Yeah, the teeniest tiniest bit of shine...

People are still lining up to look at a sock that Elvis once wore.
Reply #29 posted 03/21/08 3:47pm

Timmy84

Dance said:

Timmy84 said:

I know Otis Blackwell got some props before he died when they realized he was the guy behind some of Elvis' biggest hits.


Yeah, the teeniest tiniest bit of shine...

People are still lining up to look at a sock that Elvis once wore.


That's actually some scary shit. People get excited when they see a used glass that was once touched by Elvis lips and hands. His female fans get hot and bothered over it and keep it as if this what they were looking for their whole light, it's really embarrassing.

[moving from music to p&r -sos]
Reply #30 posted 03/21/08 5:37pm

VinnyM27

SoulAlive said:

VinnyM27 said:

I was wonder what would have happened if Elivis lived musically....Would he have sold out and put out the expected disco album? I'm sure there would be more than one duets album out there by now. And it would have been interesting to see and hear if he would have given credit/homage to the black rock, R&B, and blues that came before and was certainly of some inspiration. Almost would have had to.


I always wonder about this too.Elvis died in the summer of 1977,just before the disco phenomenom took hold.I wonder what kind of record he would have released in 1979? lol By that time,even Elton John was doing disco,lol.

Similarly,if the Beatles hadn't broke up in 1970,I wonder how their music might have evolved throughout the 70s.By the late 70s,would they had been doing disco too? LOL

Possible for the Beatles even though I don't think they would be the respect icons they are now had they stay together. I've always felt Lennon's "Whatever Gets You Through the Night" flirted with disco (or at least his Friend Bowie's "plastic soul" idea). Yoko's songs on "Double Fantasy" borded on new wave dance.
Reply #31 posted 03/21/08 6:56pm

Stymie

Dance said:

mynameisnotsusan said:

Took this quote from Wikipedia

=====

Controversial king

Main article: Cultural impact of Elvis Presley

When "That's All Right" was played, many listeners were sure Presley must be black, and most white disc-jockeys wouldn't play his Sun singles. However, black disc-jockeys didn't want anything to do with a record made by a white man.[72] To some, Presley had undoubtedly "stolen" or at least "derived his style from the Negro rhythm-and-blues performers of the late 1940s."[73] Some black entertainers, notably Jackie Wilson, countered, "A lot of people have accused Elvis of stealing the black man’s music, when in fact, almost every black solo entertainer copied his stage mannerisms from Elvis."


I don't know if it's true, but there are many who claim Elvis pretty much took care of Jackie in his last days.

He was paying medical bills and visiting him and helping him out... shrug
Considering Elvis died in 1977 and Jackie died in 1984, this isn't true.
Reply #32 posted 03/21/08 7:51pm

Dance

.
[Edited 3/21/08 19:53pm]
Reply #33 posted 03/21/08 7:52pm

Dance

Stymie said:

Considering Elvis died in 1977 and Jackie died in 1984, this isn't true.


My mistake it wasn't Elvis...it was Dick Clark that helped him out when he was laid up...brain fart shrug
[Edited 3/21/08 19:54pm]
Reply #34 posted 03/21/08 9:27pm

fluid

Sp we've confirmed Elvis wasn't racist so what about John Wayne and Lucile Ball?
Working up a purple sweat.
Reply #35 posted 03/21/08 11:08pm

guitarslinger44

Timmy84 said:

Dance said:



Yeah, the teeniest tiniest bit of shine...

People are still lining up to look at a sock that Elvis once wore.


That's actually some scary shit. People get excited when they see a used glass that was once touched by Elvis lips and hands. His female fans get hot and bothered over it and keep it as if this what they were looking for their whole light, it's really embarrassing.

[moving from music to p&r -sos]


Well, people get all hot and bothered over shit like the Shroud of Turin and some scrap of skin that was supposedly Jesus' foreskin, so you see where that comes from. razz
Reply #36 posted 03/22/08 5:41am

Rhondab

confused
Reply #37 posted 03/22/08 7:54am

MrSoulpower

The whole "Elvis-was-racist-myth" is a bunch of horsecrap. Elvis was a white kid in the deep South who happened to enjoy black music so much that he decided to make it his career. Back in the late 1940s/early 1950s, very few whites had the open mind and guts to do that, especially in Mississippi and Tennessee. He must have known that his chances of making a living from singing R&B were slim, because at the time, nobody could have foreseen that he would be one of the first whites to pioneer black music in the mainstream market.

I've been to Memphis and talked to many artists who were part of Stax and Sun Records. Everybody - black and white - speaks with deep respect and admiration for Elvis. I spoke to some who were at Stax when Elvis recorded at McLemore Avenue for about a week in 1974 (some of these tracks like "It's midnight", "If you talk in your sleep", "Help me", amongst others made it into the charts),and Stax musicians were backing him on the recordings. They were all in awe of him (though Elvis's music at that time had long lost its edge) and speak with major respect.

I'm not a big Elvis fan myself, although I did make the Graceland trip razz . But I do have respect for his persistance to perform the music that he loved, against all odds. Because he was white, he helped to gain acceptance for black music in the white mainstream, and in the long run, black artists profited from this as well.

The only people who usually cry that Elvis "ripped off black music" are those who have not known him, not worked with him and who most likely would not have been successful with or without Elvis. I've never heard anyone like Little Richard or Ike Turner claim that Elvis ripped them off. Granted, Elvis performed the music that he loved, and because he was white, he made more money than any other black artist at that time. So what? Should he have stopped performing when the money started to come in? At least Elvis gave back, and donated millions to countless charities and social programs in Memphis, supporting those who weren't as lucky.

I am white, and I make my living from black music. Should I not be successful because I'm white? Do I rip it off as well? confused Are only black folks entitled to make money of black music? What about the many, many whites who were pioneers of black music, from record company executives like Jerry Wexler, Ahmed Ertegun, Jim Stewart, Estelle Axton, Syd Nathan to producers like Tom Dowd down to studio musicians like Steve Cropper and Duck Dunn? I think that music is the only universal language that we have in the world, a language so powerful that it has transcended racial barriers even in the segregated deep South of the 1960s. Now that's power.

Elvis just happened to be lucky. He was a fantastic entertainer, a talented singer and a not so talented song writer. He still deserved what he got. And he opened a lot of doors for those who came after him - black and white. That's his legacy. And to those who make up stories about him being racist only to piss over his grave - fuck 'em.
[Edited 3/22/08 7:55am]
Reply #38 posted 03/22/08 8:19am

2freaky4church1

Strangely Chuck D changed his view on Elvis. Now he says that he respects him. Odd world. He must be getting soft. lol
wildsign Wave your wildsigns high!! wildsign
Reply #39 posted 03/22/08 8:21am

2freaky4church1

In a Playboy interview John Wayne talked about how he thought blacks were inferior--he actually said he thought they were inferior. He is in the pantheon of top actors and cultural icons.

No, we don't live in an odd world.
wildsign Wave your wildsigns high!! wildsign
Reply #40 posted 03/22/08 8:22am

2freaky4church1

I think there is this fake quote that was pinned on Elvis. Elvis was accused of saying, "I wouldn't let a black man shine my shoes." Turned out the quote was fake but many blacks still believe it.

Hate to say it, but envy plays a big role.
wildsign Wave your wildsigns high!! wildsign
Reply #41 posted 03/22/08 8:51am

Rhondab

2freaky4church1 said:

I think there is this fake quote that was pinned on Elvis. Elvis was accused of saying, "I wouldn't let a black man shine my shoes." Turned out the quote was fake but many blacks still believe it.

Hate to say it, but envy plays a big role.



envy lol
Reply #42 posted 03/22/08 8:53am

2freaky4church1

Rhonda envys Britney..lol

kiss kiss
wildsign Wave your wildsigns high!! wildsign
Reply #43 posted 03/22/08 9:03am

Shapeshifter

2freaky4church1 said:

I think there is this fake quote that was pinned on Elvis. Elvis was accused of saying, "I wouldn't let a black man shine my shoes." Turned out the quote was fake but many blacks still believe it.

Hate to say it, but envy plays a big role.



The FAKE quote ran thus: "The only thing black folks are good for is buying my records and shining my shoes".

Elvis heard about it and denied ever saying it. And he didn't.
There are three sides to every story. My side, your side, and the truth. And no one is lying. Memories shared serve each one differently
Reply #44 posted 03/22/08 9:10am

Shapeshifter

2freaky4church1 said:

In a Playboy interview John Wayne talked about how he thought blacks were inferior--he actually said he thought they were inferior. He is in the pantheon of top actors and cultural icons.

No, we don't live in an odd world.



John Wayne told Playboy that he believed in white supremacy. He went on to say that blacks were inferior and should be educated before being given equal rights. He also said Native Americans were savages and he didn't care for the Vietnamese either. In short, yup, he was a racist SOB.

That didn't stop him from making The Searchers, which as a strong ANTI-racist message. He was obviously too fucking dumb to understand the film. Probably why he refused to discuss it.

John Wayne was also a member of the John Birch Society, which was the KKK without hoods.
There are three sides to every story. My side, your side, and the truth. And no one is lying. Memories shared serve each one differently
Reply #45 posted 03/22/08 9:32am

2freaky4church1

Yep
wildsign Wave your wildsigns high!! wildsign
Reply #46 posted 03/22/08 11:04pm

Stymie

Shapeshifter said:

2freaky4church1 said:

In a Playboy interview John Wayne talked about how he thought blacks were inferior--he actually said he thought they were inferior. He is in the pantheon of top actors and cultural icons.

No, we don't live in an odd world.



John Wayne told Playboy that he believed in white supremacy. He went on to say that blacks were inferior and should be educated before being given equal rights. He also said Native Americans were savages and he didn't care for the Vietnamese either. In short, yup, he was a racist SOB.

That didn't stop him from making The Searchers, which as a strong ANTI-racist message. He was obviously too fucking dumb to understand the film. Probably why he refused to discuss it.

John Wayne was also a member of the John Birch Society, which was the KKK without hoods.
Doesn't stop people from thinking The Duke was the greatest, does it?
Reply #47 posted 03/23/08 5:30pm

theAudience

ehuffnsd said:

yay it's time for the quarterly was Elvis a racist thread!!!!!

Really. disbelief

From a response I do whenever this inaccuracy pops up.
And for some reason, it repeatedly pops up.

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

The Elvis "Quote" Myth

It has never been proven that Elvis made these comments.
For more details - http://www.snopes.com/music/artists/presley1.asp


Elvis was a close friend of the Newborn family in Memphis...



...Who are the Newborns?


Let's start with Phineas Newborn...



"One of the most technically skilled and brilliant pianists in jazz during his prime.."

"Newborn could be compared to Oscar Peterson in that his bop-based style was largely unclassifiable, his technique was phenomenal, and he was very capable of enthralling an audience playing a full song with just his left hand."

"He started out working in Memphis R&B bands with his brother, guitarist Calvin Newborn, and recorded with local players including B.B. King in the early 1950s. Brief stints with Lionel Hampton and Willis Jackson preceded a period in the military (1952-54). After moving to New York in 1956, Newborn astounded fans and critics alike. Although he worked briefly with Charles Mingus (1958) and Roy Haynes, Newborn usually performed at the head of a trio or quartet."

...www.allmusic.com


Then there's Calvin Newborn...



"The often overlooked brother of Phineas Newborn, guitarist Calvin Newborn has almost as much command of his instrument as his pianist sibling. He's an excellent melodic interpreter, plays with great fluidity and blues sensibility, and can smoothly execute complex chord progressions or subtly accompany vocalists."

"Newborn worked and recorded with his brother from 1953 to 1958, and a year later joined Earl Hines.' Newborn recorded with Hines in 1960, and toured and recorded with Lionel Hampton in both New York and Paris, as well as Jimmy Forrest, Wild Bill Davis, Al Grey and Freddie Roach in the early '60s."

...www.allmusic.com

I don't think it made the Hustle & Flow bored released soundtrack, but he does a tune in the movie called After Hours Blues. ( http://cdbaby.com/mp3hifi/newborn2-07.m3u )

Now it just so happens that Calvin Newborn currently resides in Jacksonville, Florida and is a good friend of some of the members in Tribal Disorder.

Calvin came and sat in at one of our gigs last year and I was able to talk to him about his family's relationship with Elvis.
He told me that Elvis used to come by their house all the time, was a good friend of the family and anything but a racist.

As a matter of fact, Elvis got some of his stage moves directly from watching...



..."Flyin' Calvin" perform.

A Calvin Newborn tribute site that mentions the Newborn's relationship with Elvis:
http://yellowdogrecords.com/calvinnewborn/calvin_newborn_biography.html

Calvin and Phineas played on very early...



...B.B. King recordings. (Calvin's daughter is also pictured)


Calvin Newborn – man, do I love that fella! He came to New York and sat in with us at a gig at Minton’s Playhouse, way back in the day. He tore the place up! When I found out who his brother was, I said no wonder! There’s no slack in that family name.

~George Benson


I'm no big Elvis fan, but i'm a fan of the truth.


tA

peace Tribal Disorder

http://www.soundclick.com/bands/pagemusic.cfm?bandID=182431
"Ya see, we're not interested in what you know...but what you are willing to learn. C'mon y'all."
Reply #48 posted 03/23/08 6:25pm

freshyface

MrSoulpower said:

The whole "Elvis-was-racist-myth" is a bunch of horsecrap. Elvis was a white kid in the deep South who happened to enjoy black music so much that he decided to make it his career. Back in the late 1940s/early 1950s, very few whites had the open mind and guts to do that, especially in Mississippi and Tennessee. He must have known that his chances of making a living from singing R&B were slim, because at the time, nobody could have foreseen that he would be one of the first whites to pioneer black music in the mainstream market.

I've been to Memphis and talked to many artists who were part of Stax and Sun Records. Everybody - black and white - speaks with deep respect and admiration for Elvis. I spoke to some who were at Stax when Elvis recorded at McLemore Avenue for about a week in 1974 (some of these tracks like "It's midnight", "If you talk in your sleep", "Help me", amongst others made it into the charts),and Stax musicians were backing him on the recordings. They were all in awe of him (though Elvis's music at that time had long lost its edge) and speak with major respect.

I'm not a big Elvis fan myself, although I did make the Graceland trip razz . But I do have respect for his persistance to perform the music that he loved, against all odds. Because he was white, he helped to gain acceptance for black music in the white mainstream, and in the long run, black artists profited from this as well.

The only people who usually cry that Elvis "ripped off black music" are those who have not known him, not worked with him and who most likely would not have been successful with or without Elvis. I've never heard anyone like Little Richard or Ike Turner claim that Elvis ripped them off. Granted, Elvis performed the music that he loved, and because he was white, he made more money than any other black artist at that time. So what? Should he have stopped performing when the money started to come in? At least Elvis gave back, and donated millions to countless charities and social programs in Memphis, supporting those who weren't as lucky.

I am white, and I make my living from black music. Should I not be successful because I'm white? Do I rip it off as well? confused Are only black folks entitled to make money of black music? What about the many, many whites who were pioneers of black music, from record company executives like Jerry Wexler, Ahmed Ertegun, Jim Stewart, Estelle Axton, Syd Nathan to producers like Tom Dowd down to studio musicians like Steve Cropper and Duck Dunn? I think that music is the only universal language that we have in the world, a language so powerful that it has transcended racial barriers even in the segregated deep South of the 1960s. Now that's power.

Elvis just happened to be lucky. He was a fantastic entertainer, a talented singer and a not so talented song writer. He still deserved what he got. And he opened a lot of doors for those who came after him - black and white. That's his legacy. And to those who make up stories about him being racist only to piss over his grave - fuck 'em.
[Edited 3/22/08 7:55am]


But you are missing a larger point - one that will continue to need to be made. People make a fundamnetal error when they mix up Black culture with Southern culture. Elvis didn't steal a thing. He is from Mississippi. He lived and played the indigenous culture of Mississippi. White people in Mississippi don't have a separate culture from blacks in Mississippi. Now the white aristocracy of Mississippi - a tiny portion of its population whether in Elvis' time or slavey days - have always been on the dick of ancient Rome and Greece culturally, but plain old white and black Mississippians? Very little difference culturally. In Elvis' day there were LILY WHITE holy roller baptist churches in Mississippi that were just as funkdafied as the black churches, or anything you might have found in the black neighborhoods in Detroit or Chicago or Brooklyn. Now members of those white churches might not have been as comfortable mixing with blacks socially/musically as Elvis was, but that doesn't make them culturally distinct. Let us back up. Segregation in the North has *always* existed going back to Boston in the 1600s time period. Segregation in the South DESPITE slavery NEVER existed the way we think of it today until the toppling of the Reconstruction governments in the late 1870s and really not until the entrenching of the Redeemer governments in the 1880s and 1890s. THAT was when all the "Whites Only" and "Colored" signs and the lynchings and all that shit and the KKK running wild commenced. PRIOR to the Civil War there was far more mixing of the races in everyday life in Mississippi then one would find in the north, for example, in NYC. This mixing was the part of the roots of the Elvis phenomenon - even though by the time Elvis came of age things were, in fact, strictly segregated in Mississippi. In America today, the non-Southern intelligentsia doesn't even try to hide it's contempt for the people of the South, of the entire region, it doesn't bother masking its feelings of superiority. The non-Southern intelligentsia feels itself to be more progressive and enlightened compared to Southerners, that the South is backward and static and never-changing - but the truth is as regards segregation the North has always been much more rigid and immutable. Had Elvis come from the North, he definitely would likely have had to...ummm...borrow, because white and blacks in the North had NO COMMON CULTURE due to the North's much-more-longstanding segregation.
Reply #49 posted 03/23/08 6:58pm

uPtoWnNY

freshyface said:

but the truth is as regards segregation the North has always been much more rigid and immutable.


Being a native New Yorker, your words are GOSPEL.
Reply #50 posted 03/24/08 9:50am

Shapeshifter

Stymie said:

Shapeshifter said:




John Wayne told Playboy that he believed in white supremacy. He went on to say that blacks were inferior and should be educated before being given equal rights. He also said Native Americans were savages and he didn't care for the Vietnamese either. In short, yup, he was a racist SOB.

That didn't stop him from making The Searchers, which as a strong ANTI-racist message. He was obviously too fucking dumb to understand the film. Probably why he refused to discuss it.

John Wayne was also a member of the John Birch Society, which was the KKK without hoods.
Doesn't stop people from thinking The Duke was the greatest, does it?



Of course not, but his merits as an actor (he DID make some great films) and his off-screen opinions are two completely different things.
There are three sides to every story. My side, your side, and the truth. And no one is lying. Memories shared serve each one differently
Reply #51 posted 03/24/08 10:02am

Stymie

Shapeshifter said:

Stymie said:

Doesn't stop people from thinking The Duke was the greatest, does it?



Of course not, but his merits as an actor (he DID make some great films) and his off-screen opinions are two completely different things.
Not to me they aren't. I'm not perfect, God knows I'm not but two things I will not give on and that racist motherfuckers and pedophiles.
Reply #52 posted 03/24/08 11:59am

Shapeshifter

Stymie said:

Shapeshifter said:




Of course not, but his merits as an actor (he DID make some great films) and his off-screen opinions are two completely different things.
Not to me they aren't. I'm not perfect, God knows I'm not but two things I will not give on and that racist motherfuckers and pedophiles.



Point taken, but Wayne was superb in The Searchers (an anti-racist film at that - like I said, Wayne refused to talk about it because it clearly flew in the face f all of his bigoted principles).

As for paedophiles ... lemme see: have you ever tapped your foot to .... The Bay City Rollers, R Kelly, Jerry Lee Lewis, Elvis, The Rolling Stones ....?
There are three sides to every story. My side, your side, and the truth. And no one is lying. Memories shared serve each one differently
Reply #53 posted 03/24/08 12:11pm

MrSoulpower

freshyface said:


But you are missing a larger point - one that will continue to need to be made. People make a fundamnetal error when they mix up Black culture with Southern culture. Elvis didn't steal a thing. He is from Mississippi. He lived and played the indigenous culture of Mississippi. White people in Mississippi don't have a separate culture from blacks in Mississippi. Now the white aristocracy of Mississippi - a tiny portion of its population whether in Elvis' time or slavey days - have always been on the dick of ancient Rome and Greece culturally, but plain old white and black Mississippians? Very little difference culturally. In Elvis' day there were LILY WHITE holy roller baptist churches in Mississippi that were just as funkdafied as the black churches, or anything you might have found in the black neighborhoods in Detroit or Chicago or Brooklyn. Now members of those white churches might not have been as comfortable mixing with blacks socially/musically as Elvis was, but that doesn't make them culturally distinct. Let us back up. Segregation in the North has *always* existed going back to Boston in the 1600s time period. Segregation in the South DESPITE slavery NEVER existed the way we think of it today until the toppling of the Reconstruction governments in the late 1870s and really not until the entrenching of the Redeemer governments in the 1880s and 1890s. THAT was when all the "Whites Only" and "Colored" signs and the lynchings and all that shit and the KKK running wild commenced. PRIOR to the Civil War there was far more mixing of the races in everyday life in Mississippi then one would find in the north, for example, in NYC. This mixing was the part of the roots of the Elvis phenomenon - even though by the time Elvis came of age things were, in fact, strictly segregated in Mississippi. In America today, the non-Southern intelligentsia doesn't even try to hide it's contempt for the people of the South, of the entire region, it doesn't bother masking its feelings of superiority. The non-Southern intelligentsia feels itself to be more progressive and enlightened compared to Southerners, that the South is backward and static and never-changing - but the truth is as regards segregation the North has always been much more rigid and immutable. Had Elvis come from the North, he definitely would likely have had to...ummm...borrow, because white and blacks in the North had NO COMMON CULTURE due to the North's much-more-longstanding segregation.


Hey, it wasn't me who said that Elvis "ripped of black music" razz . I agree with your aspects. However, Elvis wasn't solely influenced by Southern white churches, but also by black musicians and he has never denied that.
Reply #54 posted 03/24/08 1:24pm

Shapeshifter

MrSoulpower said:

freshyface said:


But you are missing a larger point - one that will continue to need to be made. People make a fundamnetal error when they mix up Black culture with Southern culture. Elvis didn't steal a thing. He is from Mississippi. He lived and played the indigenous culture of Mississippi. White people in Mississippi don't have a separate culture from blacks in Mississippi. Now the white aristocracy of Mississippi - a tiny portion of its population whether in Elvis' time or slavey days - have always been on the dick of ancient Rome and Greece culturally, but plain old white and black Mississippians? Very little difference culturally. In Elvis' day there were LILY WHITE holy roller baptist churches in Mississippi that were just as funkdafied as the black churches, or anything you might have found in the black neighborhoods in Detroit or Chicago or Brooklyn. Now members of those white churches might not have been as comfortable mixing with blacks socially/musically as Elvis was, but that doesn't make them culturally distinct. Let us back up. Segregation in the North has *always* existed going back to Boston in the 1600s time period. Segregation in the South DESPITE slavery NEVER existed the way we think of it today until the toppling of the Reconstruction governments in the late 1870s and really not until the entrenching of the Redeemer governments in the 1880s and 1890s. THAT was when all the "Whites Only" and "Colored" signs and the lynchings and all that shit and the KKK running wild commenced. PRIOR to the Civil War there was far more mixing of the races in everyday life in Mississippi then one would find in the north, for example, in NYC. This mixing was the part of the roots of the Elvis phenomenon - even though by the time Elvis came of age things were, in fact, strictly segregated in Mississippi. In America today, the non-Southern intelligentsia doesn't even try to hide it's contempt for the people of the South, of the entire region, it doesn't bother masking its feelings of superiority. The non-Southern intelligentsia feels itself to be more progressive and enlightened compared to Southerners, that the South is backward and static and never-changing - but the truth is as regards segregation the North has always been much more rigid and immutable. Had Elvis come from the North, he definitely would likely have had to...ummm...borrow, because white and blacks in the North had NO COMMON CULTURE due to the North's much-more-longstanding segregation.


Hey, it wasn't me who said that Elvis "ripped of black music" razz . I agree with your aspects. However, Elvis wasn't solely influenced by Southern white churches, but also by black musicians and he has never denied that.



You're forgetting the Kung Fu influence - his stage costumes post-68 were all inspired by Elvis' love of martial arts. No shit!
lol
There are three sides to every story. My side, your side, and the truth. And no one is lying. Memories shared serve each one differently
Reply #55 posted 03/24/08 1:26pm

MrSoulpower

Shapeshifter said:


You're forgetting the Kung Fu influence - his stage costumes post-68 were all inspired by Elvis' love of martial arts. No shit!
lol


Yeah, alright .. razz But it's not like that the post-68 Elvis was musically relevant ...
Reply #56 posted 03/24/08 1:30pm

egyptkizzee

people who are racists usually wouldnt admit it so i dont think the answer to this question will ever be known. if elvis was racist he sure didnt act like it.
Reply #57 posted 03/24/08 2:32pm

PEJ

I read a 700 some odd page bio on Elvis. Apparently he and his Memphis Mafia buddies were indeed racists.
Reply #58 posted 03/24/08 2:34pm

MrSoulpower

PEJ said:

I read a 700 some odd page bio on Elvis. Apparently he and his Memphis Mafia buddies were indeed racists.


Would be nice to get some facts about it. Book title? Author? Publisher? Sources? Racism is a serious accusation.
Reply #59 posted 03/24/08 3:22pm

Shapeshifter

MrSoulpower said:

PEJ said:

I read a 700 some odd page bio on Elvis. Apparently he and his Memphis Mafia buddies were indeed racists.


Would be nice to get some facts about it. Book title? Author? Publisher? Sources? Racism is a serious accusation.



Yeah, I'd like to know what that book was. 700 pages? Lemme see - Albert Goldman's infamous "Elvis" accused him of many things, from being a pathological momma's boy to voyeurism to having to wear diapers towards the end because of the amount of laxatives he was on, but Goldman never once accsed him of racism.

Then there's the superb Peter Guralnick book which completely refutes the charge.

Oh, and one of the Memphis Mafia married a Sweet Inspiration.



http://www.elvis.com.au/presley/elvis_not_racist.shtml
[Edited 3/24/08 15:23pm]
There are three sides to every story. My side, your side, and the truth. And no one is lying. Memories shared serve each one differently
Reply #60 posted 03/24/08 3:26pm

Shapeshifter

MrSoulpower said:

Shapeshifter said:


You're forgetting the Kung Fu influence - his stage costumes post-68 were all inspired by Elvis' love of martial arts. No shit!
lol


Yeah, alright .. razz But it's not like that the post-68 Elvis was musically relevant ...



He cut his best music in 1968 - The Memphis Sessions yielded In The Ghetto, Suspicious Minds, Kentucky Rain, Stranger In My Home Town, Black Limousine ... superb!

I think he never sang better than in the 1968-77 period. His voice was a thing of beauty then.
There are three sides to every story. My side, your side, and the truth. And no one is lying. Memories shared serve each one differently
Reply #61 posted 03/24/08 3:39pm

MrSoulpower

Shapeshifter said:

MrSoulpower said:



Yeah, alright .. razz But it's not like that the post-68 Elvis was musically relevant ...



He cut his best music in 1968 - The Memphis Sessions yielded In The Ghetto, Suspicious Minds, Kentucky Rain, Stranger In My Home Town, Black Limousine ... superb!

I think he never sang better than in the 1968-77 period. His voice was a thing of beauty then.


To me, after 1968 he wasn't my kinda bag .. but I agree that he sang well. I just don't like all his over-produced stuff ..
Reply #62 posted 03/24/08 4:14pm

PEJ

MrSoulpower said:

PEJ said:

I read a 700 some odd page bio on Elvis. Apparently he and his Memphis Mafia buddies were indeed racists.


Would be nice to get some facts about it. Book title? Author? Publisher? Sources? Racism is a serious accusation.




Damn this was almost 20 years ago but it was either a bio or an auto bio. Unfortunately I was locked up in juvenille hall so I can't remember the author or the title. I remember after reading it I always tripped that Eddy Murphy idolized Elvis but I felt it might be true after Chuck D made the claim in his PE rap.
Reply #63 posted 03/24/08 4:21pm

MrSoulpower

PEJ said:

MrSoulpower said:



Would be nice to get some facts about it. Book title? Author? Publisher? Sources? Racism is a serious accusation.




Damn this was almost 20 years ago but it was either a bio or an auto bio. Unfortunately I was locked up in juvenille hall so I can't remember the author or the title. I remember after reading it I always tripped that Eddy Murphy idolized Elvis but I felt it might be true after Chuck D made the claim in his PE rap.


Maybe you want to look into the background of this book, especially since it's been 20 years ago that you read it and considering that there really is no evidence elsewhere to support this theory.
Reply #64 posted 03/24/08 4:44pm

PEJ

MrSoulpower said:

PEJ said:





Damn this was almost 20 years ago but it was either a bio or an auto bio. Unfortunately I was locked up in juvenille hall so I can't remember the author or the title. I remember after reading it I always tripped that Eddy Murphy idolized Elvis but I felt it might be true after Chuck D made the claim in his PE rap.


Maybe you want to look into the background of this book, especially since it's been 20 years ago that you read it and considering that there really is no evidence elsewhere to support this theory.



I don't know where I'd start lookin but I googled "was Elvis a racist" and this is what came up first http://www.elvisinfonet.com/spotlight_racist.html not sayin its evidence but I guess there is more speculation outside of the numerous threads on the org about him.
Reply #65 posted 03/24/08 4:46pm

PEJ

PEJ said:

MrSoulpower said:



Maybe you want to look into the background of this book, especially since it's been 20 years ago that you read it and considering that there really is no evidence elsewhere to support this theory.



I don't know where I'd start lookin but I googled "was Elvis a racist" and this is what came up first http://www.elvisinfonet.com/spotlight_racist.html not sayin its evidence but I guess there is more speculation outside of the numerous threads on the org about him.


btw I'd like to think he wasn't racist.
Reply #66 posted 03/24/08 4:47pm

MrSoulpower

PEJ said:

MrSoulpower said:



Maybe you want to look into the background of this book, especially since it's been 20 years ago that you read it and considering that there really is no evidence elsewhere to support this theory.



I don't know where I'd start lookin but I googled "was Elvis a racist" and this is what came up first http://www.elvisinfonet.com/spotlight_racist.html not sayin its evidence but I guess there is more speculation outside of the numerous threads on the org about him.


Of course there's always been speculation. But there's no evidence, it's quite the contrary.

Your "source" starts with the famous quote: "The only thing niggers can do for me is buy my records and shine my shoes". Elvis never said that, and that's long been established. Even Chuck D apologized for mentioning this some years ago.
Reply #67 posted 03/24/08 4:52pm

PEJ

MrSoulpower said:

PEJ said:




I don't know where I'd start lookin but I googled "was Elvis a racist" and this is what came up first http://www.elvisinfonet.com/spotlight_racist.html not sayin its evidence but I guess there is more speculation outside of the numerous threads on the org about him.


Of course there's always been speculation. But there's no evidence, it's quite the contrary.

Your "source" starts with the famous quote: "The only thing niggers can do for me is buy my records and shine my shoes". Elvis never said that, and that's long been established. Even Chuck D apologized for mentioning this some years ago.



shame on me for reading something I read. I should have known better. boxed
Reply #68 posted 03/24/08 4:55pm

MrSoulpower

PEJ said:



shame on me for reading something I read. I should have known better. boxed



It's always good to read, man. But it's even better to check the sources before believing it. razz
Reply #69 posted 03/24/08 5:40pm

Stymie

Shapeshifter said:

Stymie said:

Not to me they aren't. I'm not perfect, God knows I'm not but two things I will not give on and that racist motherfuckers and pedophiles.



Point taken, but Wayne was superb in The Searchers (an anti-racist film at that - like I said, Wayne refused to talk about it because it clearly flew in the face f all of his bigoted principles).

As for paedophiles ... lemme see: have you ever tapped your foot to .... The Bay City Rollers, R Kelly, Jerry Lee Lewis, Elvis, The Rolling Stones ....?
No to everyone but the Stones. Who was a pedophile there?
Reply #70 posted 03/24/08 6:12pm

MrSoulpower

Stymie said:

Shapeshifter said:




Point taken, but Wayne was superb in The Searchers (an anti-racist film at that - like I said, Wayne refused to talk about it because it clearly flew in the face f all of his bigoted principles).

As for paedophiles ... lemme see: have you ever tapped your foot to .... The Bay City Rollers, R Kelly, Jerry Lee Lewis, Elvis, The Rolling Stones ....?
No to everyone but the Stones. Who was a pedophile there?


Bill Wyman dated 16-year-old model Mandy Smith back in the late 1980s.
Reply #71 posted 03/24/08 6:18pm

Stymie

MrSoulpower said:

Stymie said:

No to everyone but the Stones. Who was a pedophile there?


Bill Wyman dated 16-year-old model Mandy Smith back in the late 1980s.
Did they lock him up?
Reply #72 posted 03/24/08 6:28pm

MrSoulpower

Stymie said:

MrSoulpower said:



Bill Wyman dated 16-year-old model Mandy Smith back in the late 1980s.
Did they lock him up?


Nope. I don't remember the details, but it's possible that he hasn't violated any laws in the UK.
Reply #73 posted 03/24/08 7:36pm

fluid

As for southern white culture taking after black it's true but blacks take after whites.


You have to remember that 400 years ago when blacks were taken from Africa they had their own distinct culture. As you know this was erased. Bot only did they have their religion erased and the white man's one implanted they also took in his culture. Your in a land with no indentity of your own.SO logically the people in your surrounding impact and run off on you. In this case it was the rednecks..So alot of the way blacks talked acted and thought was based on rednecks. So their roots are basically the same. Blacks then move up North and on to California and largely fill the gehttos. It's assumed that bad education and low income are responsible for the mentality and lack of success in acedemia. You basically have to remeber that blacks were basically taught by and raised around rednecks. Even though slavery ended around 150 years the state of mind still exists. Even Jeff Foxworthy said blacks and rednecks have alot in common.
Working up a purple sweat.
Reply #74 posted 03/24/08 9:24pm

mynameisnotsusan

MrSoulpower said:

Stymie said:

No to everyone but the Stones. Who was a pedophile there?


Bill Wyman dated 16-year-old model Mandy Smith back in the late 1980s.


Try 13-year old

again from Wiki (only because it's convenient) but I could pull it out of a number of other sources.

Personal life

At age 47, Bill Wyman began a relationship with a 13-year old girl by the name of Mandy Smith, with her mother's blessing. Six years later, they were married, but the marriage only lasted a year.


Y'know what's fucked up about that story, Mandy's Mum and Bill's son then got together and I believe are still married. Mandy's stepson marrying his step grandmother ill
Reply #75 posted 03/24/08 10:19pm

guitarslinger44

fluid said:

As for southern white culture taking after black it's true but blacks take after whites.


You have to remember that 400 years ago when blacks were taken from Africa they had their own distinct culture. As you know this was erased. Bot only did they have their religion erased and the white man's one implanted they also took in his culture. Your in a land with no indentity of your own.SO logically the people in your surrounding impact and run off on you. In this case it was the rednecks..So alot of the way blacks talked acted and thought was based on rednecks. So their roots are basically the same. Blacks then move up North and on to California and largely fill the gehttos. It's assumed that bad education and low income are responsible for the mentality and lack of success in acedemia. You basically have to remeber that blacks were basically taught by and raised around rednecks. Even though slavery ended around 150 years the state of mind still exists. Even Jeff Foxworthy said blacks and rednecks have alot in common.



When I was on the road with this country band I played with, I noticed that blacks and whites seemed to mix a lot more freely in the smaller towns and cities than they do in the big cities where it seems a little more forced.
Reply #76 posted 03/24/08 10:20pm

guitarslinger44

MrSoulpower said:

The whole "Elvis-was-racist-myth" is a bunch of horsecrap. Elvis was a white kid in the deep South who happened to enjoy black music so much that he decided to make it his career. Back in the late 1940s/early 1950s, very few whites had the open mind and guts to do that, especially in Mississippi and Tennessee. He must have known that his chances of making a living from singing R&B were slim, because at the time, nobody could have foreseen that he would be one of the first whites to pioneer black music in the mainstream market.

I've been to Memphis and talked to many artists who were part of Stax and Sun Records. Everybody - black and white - speaks with deep respect and admiration for Elvis. I spoke to some who were at Stax when Elvis recorded at McLemore Avenue for about a week in 1974 (some of these tracks like "It's midnight", "If you talk in your sleep", "Help me", amongst others made it into the charts),and Stax musicians were backing him on the recordings. They were all in awe of him (though Elvis's music at that time had long lost its edge) and speak with major respect.

I'm not a big Elvis fan myself, although I did make the Graceland trip razz . But I do have respect for his persistance to perform the music that he loved, against all odds. Because he was white, he helped to gain acceptance for black music in the white mainstream, and in the long run, black artists profited from this as well.

The only people who usually cry that Elvis "ripped off black music" are those who have not known him, not worked with him and who most likely would not have been successful with or without Elvis. I've never heard anyone like Little Richard or Ike Turner claim that Elvis ripped them off. Granted, Elvis performed the music that he loved, and because he was white, he made more money than any other black artist at that time. So what? Should he have stopped performing when the money started to come in? At least Elvis gave back, and donated millions to countless charities and social programs in Memphis, supporting those who weren't as lucky.

I am white, and I make my living from black music. Should I not be successful because I'm white? Do I rip it off as well? confused Are only black folks entitled to make money of black music? What about the many, many whites who were pioneers of black music, from record company executives like Jerry Wexler, Ahmed Ertegun, Jim Stewart, Estelle Axton, Syd Nathan to producers like Tom Dowd down to studio musicians like Steve Cropper and Duck Dunn? I think that music is the only universal language that we have in the world, a language so powerful that it has transcended racial barriers even in the segregated deep South of the 1960s. Now that's power.

Elvis just happened to be lucky. He was a fantastic entertainer, a talented singer and a not so talented song writer. He still deserved what he got. And he opened a lot of doors for those who came after him - black and white. That's his legacy. And to those who make up stories about him being racist only to piss over his grave - fuck 'em.
[Edited 3/22/08 7:55am]


[/thread]

I think we should save this reply and post it whenever this topic comes up. nod
Reply #77 posted 03/25/08 2:31am

Shapeshifter

Stymie said:

Shapeshifter said:




Point taken, but Wayne was superb in The Searchers (an anti-racist film at that - like I said, Wayne refused to talk about it because it clearly flew in the face f all of his bigoted principles).

As for paedophiles ... lemme see: have you ever tapped your foot to .... The Bay City Rollers, R Kelly, Jerry Lee Lewis, Elvis, The Rolling Stones ....?
No to everyone but the Stones. Who was a pedophile there?



Bill Wyman. Mandy Smith was 13 when he met her.
There are three sides to every story. My side, your side, and the truth. And no one is lying. Memories shared serve each one differently
Reply #78 posted 03/25/08 2:36am

Shapeshifter

Stymie said:

MrSoulpower said:



Bill Wyman dated 16-year-old model Mandy Smith back in the late 1980s.
Did they lock him up?



He was investigated, but Mandy Smith said they hadn't had sex when she was underage. But, who knows ....?
[Edited 3/25/08 2:38am]
There are three sides to every story. My side, your side, and the truth. And no one is lying. Memories shared serve each one differently
Reply #79 posted 03/25/08 7:52am

Empress

Fury said:

music motherfuck him and john wayne music public enemy


public enemy - yeah, fuck them too! Especially that idiot with the clock around his neck!! biggrin

Get over it folks. This story is like beating a dead dog!
Reply #80 posted 03/25/08 9:05am

Shapeshifter

Empress said:

Fury said:

music motherfuck him and john wayne music public enemy


public enemy - yeah, fuck them too! Especially that idiot with the clock around his neck!! biggrin

Get over it folks. This story is like beating a dead dog!



Good old Flava Flav, crackhead extraordinaire, now making a complete twat of himself on reality tv.
There are three sides to every story. My side, your side, and the truth. And no one is lying. Memories shared serve each one differently
Reply #81 posted 03/25/08 9:09am

Empress

Shapeshifter said:

Empress said:



public enemy - yeah, fuck them too! Especially that idiot with the clock around his neck!! biggrin

Get over it folks. This story is like beating a dead dog!



Good old Flava Flav, crackhead extraordinaire, now making a complete twat of himself on reality tv.


Well, I was just being a bit sarcastic about Public Enemy, but I'm so damn sick of the same old threads on this site. Elvis was no angel, but I don't believe he was a racist. Those that do will always believe it, so lets stop beating this subject to death.
Reply #82 posted 03/25/08 10:14am

Shapeshifter

Empress said:

Shapeshifter said:




Good old Flava Flav, crackhead extraordinaire, now making a complete twat of himself on reality tv.


Well, I was just being a bit sarcastic about Public Enemy, but I'm so damn sick of the same old threads on this site. Elvis was no angel, but I don't believe he was a racist. Those that do will always believe it, so lets stop beating this subject to death.



I know you were. I just couldn't resist a dig at Flav. He was a core member of PE though, and frequently hilarious. Bit that was then. Now he's just seriously pathetic.
There are three sides to every story. My side, your side, and the truth. And no one is lying. Memories shared serve each one differently
Reply #83 posted 03/25/08 11:43am

namepeace

uPtoWnNY said:

freshyface said:

but the truth is as regards segregation the North has always been much more rigid and immutable.


Being a native New Yorker, your words are GOSPEL.


southern segregation was in many ways like a chain-link fence to the North's invisible fence. The former gives you a clear understanding of what the boundaries are and leaves no doubt the area is confined. The latter gives you an illusion of open space but those who do not know the boundaries are in for a shock.
Props will be withheld until the showing and proving has commenced. -- Aaron McGruder
Reply #84 posted 03/25/08 3:53pm

fluid

maybe sputherners mix cause country ppl are friendlier.
Working up a purple sweat.

URL: http://prince.org/msg/105/264908

Date printed: Fri 1st Aug 2014 9:29pm PDT