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Blame Amid the Tragedy Blame Amid the Tragedy
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The buck stops with the Commander-in-Chief. President George W Bush doesn't it?
The federal government does not have the authority to intervene in a state emergency without the request of a governor.
So the president has no authority here? The most powerfull office in the U.S is unable to intervene unless a governor approves it? Damn...just who is in charge exactly? | |
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LleeLlee said: The buck stops with the Commander-in-Chief. President George W Bush doesn't it?
The federal government does not have the authority to intervene in a state emergency without the request of a governor.
So the president has no authority here? The most powerfull office in the U.S is unable to intervene unless a governor approves it? Damn...just who is in charge exactly? interstingly louisiana differs from the rest of the united states in that the napoleonic code, rather than common law, is applied. i doubt that this had much effect on how things were handled, but just thought i'd throw that out there. blame napoleon!!!!! | |
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XxAxX said: LleeLlee said: The buck stops with the Commander-in-Chief. President George W Bush doesn't it?
So the president has no authority here? The most powerfull office in the U.S is unable to intervene unless a governor approves it? Damn...just who is in charge exactly? interstingly louisiana differs from the rest of the united states in that the napoleonic code, rather than common law, is applied. i doubt that this had much effect on how things were handled, but just thought i'd throw that out there. blame napoleon!!!!! Heads should roll, but ultimate responsibility lies with the president. If this was Tony Blair the members of parliament would be demanding his resignation! | |
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Of course the mayor and governor could have done a better job. But that isn't the point of this punk's article. The point is about protecting his beloved president so that his organization's agenda of more tax cuts is not threatened.
Props will be withheld until the showing and proving has commenced. -- Aaron McGruder | |
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well , i thought it was bold - of the president to issue the "disaster zones " before the hurricane HIT ...
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MisterMan38 said: well , i thought it was bold - of the president to issue the "disaster zones " before the hurricane HIT ...
and i thought the mayor of New Orleans has done a terrible job ... he didnt warn the looters before they robbed .... Surely you don't believe that our Commander in Chief has done a good job handling this disaster. Please tell me you don't believe that. Props will be withheld until the showing and proving has commenced. -- Aaron McGruder | |
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this was the strongest hurricane --- category 5 --- hitting the poor neighborhoods that are below sea level !!! come on people ... its like saying when a tornado hits -- how come they always hit mobile homes !!??
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MisterMan38 said: this was the strongest hurricane --- category 5 --- hitting the poor neighborhoods that are below sea level !!! come on people ... its like saying when a tornado hits -- how come they always hit mobile homes !!??
with something like this --- people are gonna be displaced.... jobs not being able to gotten to .... and yes --- loved ones lost ... That ain't the point. The point was how the feddy guv responded to it. So, get past the failures of the local and state governments. Those are fairly evident. Did the federal government do a good job? A simple yes or no will do. Props will be withheld until the showing and proving has commenced. -- Aaron McGruder | |
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Actually the money assigned to the prevention of such desaster was reduced in order to contribute to the war in Iraq. The government reduced the amount of money assigned to repairing the hoovers and such.
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i think the government is doing a good job ... adequate ... hell ... i just read they are gonna get $2,000.00 debit cards ... damn .. i can buy alot of poptarts for $2,000 | |
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MisterMan38 said: i think the government is doing a good job ... adequate ... hell ... i just read they are gonna get $2,000.00 debit cards ... damn .. i can buy alot of poptarts for $2,000
Yeah, and clothes, and an apartment, and medicine. Oh wait . . . just let them eat poptarts. Props will be withheld until the showing and proving has commenced. -- Aaron McGruder | |
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LleeLlee said: The buck stops with the Commander-in-Chief. President George W Bush doesn't it?
The federal government does not have the authority to intervene in a state emergency without the request of a governor.
So the president has no authority here? The most powerfull office in the U.S is unable to intervene unless a governor approves it? Damn...just who is in charge exactly? If the federal gov. with FEMA is already set up to handle disasters and the president is relying on them to take care of things as they have always done in the past (we have had many a hurricane that destroyed things) then how is it all his fault if that agency fails? Like a manager hires a security guard, with good references, goes home and returns to find the place ransacked and no guard in sight. Even if there were theft warnings in the area and the guard was qualified to handle it? How is that all the managers fault?? The relief agencies were there and in effect. [Edited 9/7/05 10:51am] | |
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Eternaldragon said: LleeLlee said: The buck stops with the Commander-in-Chief. President George W Bush doesn't it?
So the president has no authority here? The most powerfull office in the U.S is unable to intervene unless a governor approves it? Damn...just who is in charge exactly? If the federal gov. with FEMA is already set up to handle disasters and the president is relying on them to take care of things as they have always done in the past (we have had many a hurricane that destroyed things) then how is it all his fault if that agency fails? Like a manager hires a security guard, with good references, goes home and returns to find the place ransacked and no guard in sight. Even if there were theft warnings in the area and the guard was qualified to handle it? How is that all the managers fault?? The relief agencies were there and in effect. [Edited 9/7/05 10:51am] It's ALWAYS the manager's responsibility... always. "I think one of the things that we're probably proudest of -- I certainly am -- is that the message was always love, in any form we portrayed it." - Paul McCartney | |
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MisterMan38 said: i think the government is doing a good job ... adequate ... hell ... i just read they are gonna get $2,000.00 debit cards ... damn .. i can buy alot of poptarts for $2,000
"I think one of the things that we're probably proudest of -- I certainly am -- is that the message was always love, in any form we portrayed it." - Paul McCartney | |
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maybe instead of placing blame .... some of ya should just send $$$$ | |
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MisterMan38 said: maybe instead of placing blame .... some of ya should just send $$$$
I did - and my company matched my contribution. "I think one of the things that we're probably proudest of -- I certainly am -- is that the message was always love, in any form we portrayed it." - Paul McCartney | |
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MisterMan38 said: maybe instead of placing blame .... some of ya should just send $$$$
Yeah, write a check and forget how the government failed to respond effectively to a natural disaster that was predicted years, if not decades in advance. The government failed to perform one of its most essential functions. But you don't want to talk about that? Do you even think this stuff through? The 2 checks I wrote, and any other help I might send, does not obscure a clear failure of leadership, as you are so desperate to do. I'm still waiting on an answer to the question. [Edited 9/7/05 11:28am] Props will be withheld until the showing and proving has commenced. -- Aaron McGruder | |
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MrTation said: Blame Amid the Tragedy
Gov. Blanco and Mayor Nagin failed their constituents. And Bush failed the state and the nation. This was a failure of national leadership. The rest of the country is dealing with sky high gas prices thanks to the failure of the national leadership to look at this region as strategically important to the country. Instead of blaming Bush, why not blame the residents, uh- wait, you already are. You people are sick and twisted. Bush and nobody in the Bush administration should be held accountable for allowing AMERICAN CITIZENS to languish for 5 full days before sending assistance? Why not? This thing was bigger than the city of New Orleans or the State of Louisiana. Couple that with the Homeland Security Department, which swallowed up FEMA and then compound that with the fact that FEMA's funding was gutted and then to add insult to injury, Bush appointed someone to lead FEMA who had no experience. And the infamous noose that the right always tries to hang on Democrats, namely "bureaucracy", well we can see that is a devil that this administration knows all too well. The people who are supposedly about less government have created the biggest government in history and created such a large organization that they were unable and unwilling to do anything until the people were begging for help. Bush could murder a man right on national television and you apologists would claim he was innocent. The spin on this from Bush supporters is sickening and really should galvanize all minorities and the poor to see what both the Republican party and their core constuents think of you. Nothing. Vote for these creeps based on fake moral issues, you're the fool. They've abandoned you in your direst time of need. THAT'S NOT MORAL. You really should remember that in the future. . [Edited 9/7/05 11:42am] 2010: Healing the Wounds of the Past.... http://prince.org/msg/8/325740 | |
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And hilarious that this thread decries the blame game, and then goes on to blame. In addition to the plans, local, state and federal officials held a simulated hurricane drill 13 months ago, in which widespread flooding supposedly trapped 300,000 people inside New Orleans. The exercise simulated the evacuation of more than a million residents. The problems identified in the simulation apparently were not solved.
There is quite a difference in a drill where a disaster has actually not occurred and your entire city being submerged. No doubt first response could have and should have been better on the local level, but the government failed to act for 5 DAMN DAYS!. FEMA officials were even saying in the beginning that they had no idea how bad things were, all the while all you had to do was turn on the damn television to see that those people needed help! The political ramifications on the right cannot come soon enough As for officials failing to ask for assistance in a timely manner, I'm sure I'm not alone in watching them plea for help on TV day after day after day. Have Bush apologists already forgotten that so soon!? . [Edited 9/7/05 11:40am] 2010: Healing the Wounds of the Past.... http://prince.org/msg/8/325740 | |
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MisterMan38 said: maybe instead of placing blame .... some of ya should just send $$$$
You really should not come in here putting the oness on us. I too have contributed money to help the people. Stop shifting responsibility on everyone but the people at the top who abandoned the citizens of New Orleans. 2010: Healing the Wounds of the Past.... http://prince.org/msg/8/325740 | |
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The trouble at the local level
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MrTation said: The trouble at the local level
Linda Chavez September 7, 2005 "You and your family (yes, your children, too) should be dropped right in the middle of New Orleans and be forced to live there for three days, and maybe then your tight grip on the GOP might be loosened and you'll be awakened to the failures of the incompetent man sitting in the White House." Such is the vitriol spewing forth in the aftermath of Katrina from those who believe George W. Bush is responsible for all of life's misfortunes. I received this hateful e-mail after commenting on television that while the federal response to the crisis has shouldered most of the criticism, state and local officials bore major responsibility for the chaos that enveloped New Orleans in the immediate wake of the hurricane. As it happened, my youngest son, Rudy, was in New Orleans as the storm approached the Gulf Coast, so I was acutely focused on what actions were being taken to evacuate the city. On Aug. 27, with the hurricane gaining force in the Gulf, New Orleans Mayor Ray Nagin called for a voluntary evacuation of the city. But even after he ordered a mandatory evacuation the next day, he made no plans to transport the elderly, the infirm, or those too poor to get themselves out, much less thousands of tourists stranded without cars. On the afternoon of Aug. 27, Louisiana Gov. Kathleen Blanco held a press briefing in which she answered a question about what could be done to avert disaster: "We can pray very hard that the intensity will weaken. We don't know what it's going to be yet, but we're all watching the weather service. I believe that's the best we can do right now." It was at that point that I knew my son was in real trouble. The governor had the power to call out the National Guard in advance of the storm. Indeed, it was imperative that she do so if troops were to be available in the immediate hours after the hurricane hit since it takes 72 hours to fully mobilize. Gov. Blanco delayed taking crucial actions -- in fact, it was the president who called her to plead that she declare an emergency. "Gov. Kathleen Blanco, standing beside the mayor at a news conference, said President Bush called and personally appealed for a mandatory evacuation for the low-lying city, which is prone to flooding," the Associated Press reported Aug. 28. The city had hundreds of vehicles at its disposal: school buses, city buses, garbage trucks, and city cars. But the mayor failed to mobilize these or to set up procedures for all city employees to be available to assist in keeping order and organizing evacuation. For those unlucky enough to end up at the Superdome, no plans were in place to get thousands of desperate people out of there once the winds died down. My son was able to get out on Sunday before the storm hit. Thanks to quick thinking, lots of determination and a measure of good fortune, he managed to get a rental car at New Orleans airport and drove to Baton Rouge with four friends. But others were not so lucky. In our federal system of government, the national government does not step in -- even in dire emergency -- until state officials request that help. But what do you do when those officials are dysfunctional, as they clearly were in Louisiana? According to The Washington Post, federal officials have asked the governor for "unified control over all local police and state National Guard units reporting to the governor. Louisiana officials rejected the request after talks throughout the night, concerned that such a move would be comparable to a federal declaration of martial law." And, the Post reported, "Louisiana did not reach out to a multi-state mutual aid compact for assistance until Wednesday, three state and federal officials said." No doubt, the federal response to this crisis was far from flawless, but at the end of the day, it was federal troops that restored order, the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers that plugged breaches in the levees, and federal forces that ultimately evacuated thousands of those trapped. Instead of blaming federal authorities, the country ought to be giving thanks. Linda Chavez is President of the Center for Equal Opportunity, a Townhall.com partner organization. Again, Tation. The state and local governments screwed up. They did. I'll even concede for the purposes of the argument that everything that hackette Chavez said is right. That being said, why are you and your hero trying to hide behind the governor's skirt? Your boy failed, son. Accept it. Props will be withheld until the showing and proving has commenced. -- Aaron McGruder | |
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MrTation said: No doubt, the federal response to this crisis was far from flawless, but at the end of the day, it was federal troops that restored order, the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers that plugged breaches in the levees, and federal forces that ultimately evacuated thousands of those trapped. Instead of blaming federal authorities, the country ought to be giving thanks.
You just have to love this spin "far from flawless" How about disasterous. Thank you Republicans in Congress for gutting the funding to fix the levy system in the first place. Thank you Republicans for manufacturing a war for money and oil which diverted money that should have gone towards fixing the levies. Thank you Republicans for taking the national guard away from our country and sending them to Iraq to get blown up, I mean to bring freedom to those people. When these people needed them, they weren't there. Thank you Bush for appointing someone with no experience to head FEMA, his non-response speaks volumes about your judgement. Thank you Bush for ignoring the importance of this area of the country. Because of that we have $3.00 + prices for gas. Thank you so much And lastly, thank you for abandoning Americans in their time of need. We can all be thankful for these things . [Edited 9/7/05 12:11pm] 2010: Healing the Wounds of the Past.... http://prince.org/msg/8/325740 | |
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believe it or not, it gets worse... here's our good friend Rush Limbaugh blaming the victims. does it get any lower than that? | |
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IrresistibleB1tch said: believe it or not, it gets worse... here's our good friend Rush Limbaugh blaming the victims. does it get any lower than that?
Limbaugh linked New Orleans humanitarian disaster to "the welfare and entitlement thinking of government" On the September 1 broadcast of his nationally syndicated radio show, Rush Limbaugh linked the humanitarian disaster in the wake of Hurricane Katrina to "the welfare and entitlement thinking of government." Referencing an entry in the American Thinker weblog by Thomas Lifson, who asserted that New Orleans failed to develop economically due to a history of corrupt and intrusive government, Limbaugh claimed that the urban poverty underlying the current humanitarian crisis is a result of social welfare programs: "If you, as a mayor, or if you, as a city council, run a city based on the welfare and entitlement thinking of government -- bammo! -- you're going to get poor citizens!" Limbaugh also accused city officials of "passing the buck all over the place and accepting all the money that the government's sending in to you," instead of taking the initiative themselves to fix the levee system that was designed to help protect the city from flooding. He added, "[S]ocialism versus capitalism; entrepreneurialism and self-reliance versus the entitlement mentality -- so much on display here. That's what nobody's got the guts to say." From the September 1 broadcast of The Rush Limbaugh Show: LIMBAUGH: So I run across Thomas Lifson's piece comparing Houston to New Orleans and why Houston shouldn't be the capital of the oil business in this country, but it is. And there are reasons for it. They have nothing to do with race. They have everything to do with politics. They have everything to do with worldview. If you, as a mayor, or if you, as a city council, run a city based on the welfare and entitlement thinking of government -- bammo! -- you're going to get poor citizens! If you run a city that believes in entrepreneurialism and growth and so forth, you're not going to have as much of that. But if your city believes that it's entitled, if that's, if that's the worldview of the leaders of a community, then I don't care what their race is -- if their worldview is that this is a welfare state -- "the government needs to protect us. The government needs to feed us. The government needs to transport us. The government" -- well, guess what? The government needs to build the levees. The government needs to make sure the levees are -- the government. You're passing the buck all over the place and accepting all the money that the government's sending in to you, ah, and then something like this happens and then you start, you know, wringing your hands. "Oh, look how poor the population --" Well, what do you expect when you have a welfare state mentality as your city government? I mean, I'm not even being critical. I'm just trying to point out something obvious here! That -- talking about this for 18 years, folks -- socialism versus capitalism; entrepreneurialism and self-reliance versus the entitlement mentality -- so much on display here. That's what nobody's got the guts to say. Ah, the pill-popping, dropout-disguised-as-intellectual, racist demagogue finally weighs in by associating blacks with welfare and entitlements. He better be careful. Soon he may have a mandatory entitlement to a jail cell. Props will be withheld until the showing and proving has commenced. -- Aaron McGruder | |
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IrresistibleB1tch said: believe it or not, it gets worse... here's our good friend Rush Limbaugh blaming the victims. does it get any lower than that?
Limbaugh linked New Orleans humanitarian disaster to "the welfare and entitlement thinking of government" On the September 1 broadcast of his nationally syndicated radio show, Rush Limbaugh linked the humanitarian disaster in the wake of Hurricane Katrina to "the welfare and entitlement thinking of government." Referencing an entry in the American Thinker weblog by Thomas Lifson, who asserted that New Orleans failed to develop economically due to a history of corrupt and intrusive government, Limbaugh claimed that the urban poverty underlying the current humanitarian crisis is a result of social welfare programs: "If you, as a mayor, or if you, as a city council, run a city based on the welfare and entitlement thinking of government -- bammo! -- you're going to get poor citizens!" Limbaugh also accused city officials of "passing the buck all over the place and accepting all the money that the government's sending in to you," instead of taking the initiative themselves to fix the levee system that was designed to help protect the city from flooding. He added, "[S]ocialism versus capitalism; entrepreneurialism and self-reliance versus the entitlement mentality -- so much on display here. That's what nobody's got the guts to say." From the September 1 broadcast of The Rush Limbaugh Show: LIMBAUGH: So I run across Thomas Lifson's piece comparing Houston to New Orleans and why Houston shouldn't be the capital of the oil business in this country, but it is. And there are reasons for it. They have nothing to do with race. They have everything to do with politics. They have everything to do with worldview. If you, as a mayor, or if you, as a city council, run a city based on the welfare and entitlement thinking of government -- bammo! -- you're going to get poor citizens! If you run a city that believes in entrepreneurialism and growth and so forth, you're not going to have as much of that. But if your city believes that it's entitled, if that's, if that's the worldview of the leaders of a community, then I don't care what their race is -- if their worldview is that this is a welfare state -- "the government needs to protect us. The government needs to feed us. The government needs to transport us. The government" -- well, guess what? The government needs to build the levees. The government needs to make sure the levees are -- the government. You're passing the buck all over the place and accepting all the money that the government's sending in to you, ah, and then something like this happens and then you start, you know, wringing your hands. "Oh, look how poor the population --" Well, what do you expect when you have a welfare state mentality as your city government? I mean, I'm not even being critical. I'm just trying to point out something obvious here! That -- talking about this for 18 years, folks -- socialism versus capitalism; entrepreneurialism and self-reliance versus the entitlement mentality -- so much on display here. That's what nobody's got the guts to say. If the private sector is the end all be all, then Texas wouldn't be crying about having to deal with the displaced now would they? They would have all the resources necessary to deal with anything that came their way right? Why isn't the south an economic powerhouse to Rival the State of California if this entraprenurial and capitalistic spirit is so loved and followed? Why would Texas have huge numbers of impoverished citizens itself? Rush Limbaugh and the Right Wing party are a bunch or racist pricks that care about nothing but themselves. The private sector was never going to be able to step into such a huge crisis. The people of this country are so damn gullible that they believe that these people are poor because they don't embrace unchecked capitalism. It's things like unchecked capitalism that leads people to the poorhouse in the first place. It's always about making a buck at any and everybody's expense and if someone falls behind or through the tracks, too fucking bad for them, we got our money and that's all that matters. I can't even express with words what I want to happen to these sick fuckers. Whoever said that these disasters never affect the people who truly deserve it, wasn't lying. . [Edited 9/7/05 12:52pm] 2010: Healing the Wounds of the Past.... http://prince.org/msg/8/325740 | |
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SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said: If the private sector is the end all be all, then Texas wouldn't be crying about having to deal with the displaced now would they? They would have all the resources necessary to deal with anything that came their way right? Why isn't the south an economic powerhouse to Rival the State of California if this entraprenurial and capitalistic spirit is so loved and followed? Why would Texas have huge numbers of impoverished citizens itself? Rush Limbaugh and the Right Wing party are a bunch or racist pricks that care about nothing but themselves. The private sector was never going to be able to step into such a huge crisis. The people of this country are so damn gullible that they believe that these people are poor because they don't embrace unchecked capitalism. It's things like unchecked capitalism that leads people to the poorhouse in the first place. It's always about making a buck at any and everybody's expense and if someone falls behind or through the tracks, too fucking bad for them, we got our money and that's all that matters. I can't even express with words what I want to happen to these sick fuckers. Whoever said that these disasters never affect the people who truly deserve it, wasn't lying. . [Edited 9/7/05 12:52pm] i HAVE to believe that people are seeing the light, as you are. otherwise, i'd have to stick my head in the oven and call it a day. | |
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namepeace said: Ah, the pill-popping, dropout-disguised-as-intellectual, racist demagogue finally weighs in by associating blacks with welfare and entitlements. He better be careful. Soon he may have a mandatory entitlement to a jail cell. what's the latest on that? | |
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Eternaldragon said: LleeLlee said: The buck stops with the Commander-in-Chief. President George W Bush doesn't it?
So the president has no authority here? The most powerfull office in the U.S is unable to intervene unless a governor approves it? Damn...just who is in charge exactly? If the federal gov. with FEMA is already set up to handle disasters and the president is relying on them to take care of things as they have always done in the past (we have had many a hurricane that destroyed things) then how is it all his fault if that agency fails? Like a manager hires a security guard, with good references, goes home and returns to find the place ransacked and no guard in sight. Even if there were theft warnings in the area and the guard was qualified to handle it? How is that all the managers fault?? The relief agencies were there and in effect. [Edited 9/7/05 10:51am] This whole disaster makes Bush appear as if he has no authority/control over his own government agencies. He was responsible for ensuring that FEMA responded to this emergency in a way that was appropriate and effective. They did nothing for five days and where was he? on holiday. He could have picked up the phone...and asked why these people were not being helped, but he didn't. With powerful positions in government, comes responsibility, not just photo ops of kissing babies etc. If Bush had dealt with this in an effective and timely manner you would have been applauding him and saying what a great strong leader you have, how he cares about his citizens. It is his responsibility to "manage" his government to ensure that at times like this his citizens can rely them for help. Just what kind of office is he running when his employees were sitting on their arses twiddling their thumbs while people were dying? He has all the power to start wars but none when it comes to safe guarding the lives of his own citizens. He is inept and he has surrounded himself with inept people. He bears the brunt of the responsiblity for this. We're not talking about a ransacked office, we're talking about thousands dead, and people that could have been saved if they hadn't been abandoned. If the "manager" is incapapble of managing his office questions need to be asked.. It looks like he didnt give a damn...and that he couldnt coordinate his way out of a paper bag from over here. that is all.... | |
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