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Question: Do you think that people who voted for Bush HATE homosexuals? There have been some comments on this board that I feel are frankly stereotypical and offensive and I just want to know your thoughts. Some individuals have said that most people (at least 90%!) who voted for Bush HATE homosexuals! I don't have a lot of conservative friends, but not ONE of the people I know that voted for Bush hates ANYONE for their lifestyles, race, etc....Maybe it's the people I choose to associate with (ie - I choose not to hang out with racists, homophobes, etc...) but I find it hard to believe that anyone can make the claim that 90% of Bush supporters HATE homosexuals. Of course there are some that hate homosexuals - but my guess is that those are an extremely small minority. What do you all think?
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the overwhelming majority of articles on this year's election have stated that the deciding factor that pushed bush over the top was "moral issues". and then we have the fact that this same election resulted in eleven states voting to ban same-sex marriages.
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I dunno - to me, "hate" seems like a pretty strong word. I just find it hard to believe that people who voted for Bush (even those who voted soley for the "definition of marriage" issue) HATE homosexuals. Of course some of those people do. But, I think it's fairly naive and offensive to paint an entire group of people as HATING another group...I guess I'm just offended that someone would accuse me of HATING ANYONE based on my vote. | |
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I think it's wrong to brand an entire political body but the political machine is riding a wave of homophobia. Nobody can justify denying us our rights as American citizens. Gay marriage has nothing to do with morality and everything to do with rights.
2009: Mermaids and Dolphins... | |
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ReturnOfDOOK said: I dunno - to me, "hate" seems like a pretty strong word. I just find it hard to believe that people who voted for Bush (even those who voted soley for the "definition of marriage" issue) HATE homosexuals. Of course some of those people do. But, I think it's fairly naive and offensive to paint an entire group of people as HATING another group...I guess I'm just offended that someone would accuse me of HATING ANYONE based on my vote.
So as a conservative you don't HATE gays - you just want to make sure we're kept in our proper place? I guess that could be defined as "toughlove". 
And, speaking of stereotypes, you know how we like it tough.  | |
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ReturnOfDOOK said: I dunno - to me, "hate" seems like a pretty strong word. I just find it hard to believe that people who voted for Bush (even those who voted soley for the "definition of marriage" issue) HATE homosexuals. Of course some of those people do. But, I think it's fairly naive and offensive to paint an entire group of people as HATING another group...I guess I'm just offended that someone would accuse me of HATING ANYONE based on my vote.
Sure there might not be any 'hate' involved, but there's no doubt that the majority have strong prejudices.  ..... BULLSEYE!  | |
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SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said: I think it's wrong to brand an entire political body but the political machine is riding a wave of homophobia. Nobody can justify denying us our rights as American citizens. Gay marriage has nothing to do with morality and everything to do with rights.
"I don't hate gays.....I just don't want them to have equal rights". That certainly is not a position of love. Any gay person who supported the GOP has sold themselves, and us as well, out. Isn't Ken Mehlman (Bush's campaign director, and incoming head of the GOP) gay? (Maybe that's just a rumor.)  *****************************************
"Yes - bold steps must be taken, 2 bump a nation, their scrutiny is what I'm facin' " - "Jughead" W. Bush | |
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jackflash said: SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said: I think it's wrong to brand an entire political body but the political machine is riding a wave of homophobia. Nobody can justify denying us our rights as American citizens. Gay marriage has nothing to do with morality and everything to do with rights.
"I don't hate gays.....I just don't want them to have equal rights". That certainly is not a position of love. Any gay person who supported the GOP has sold themselves, and us as well, out. Isn't Ken Mehlman (Bush's campaign director, and incoming head of the GOP) gay? (Maybe that's just a rumor.) If so, he'd be nothing more than a clever political tool. "look, we don't hate gays, we'll hire them to do our work". All the while those same people have campaigned against us on a grand scale, even seeking to insert discrimination against gay people into the constitution, something that has only represented rights. I have no doubt that this guy, if he is in fact gay, is qualified to do whatever job they are putting him in. However I view it as a political tool in which they can claim that they have nothing against gays but again actions speak louder than words. Gay people who support the GOP = sellout. Have some fucking balls and stand up against the bigotry. Sadly some people are programmed to accept less because of religious and social pressures. 2009: Mermaids and Dolphins... | |
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jackflash said: Isn't Ken Mehlman (Bush's campaign director, and incoming head of the GOP) gay? (Maybe that's just a rumor.) not that he'll let on, though there certainly is rampant speculation: http://www.google.com/sea...art=0&sa=N | |
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I don't think you can really put a blanket statement on a group like that. We have all done it to each other on this site from time to time, but it is not really accurate or fair assumption.
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seekingtruth said: I don't think you can really put a blanket statement on a group like that. We have all done it to each other on this site from time to time, but it is not really accurate or fair assumption.
I voted for Bush. I don't hate gays. The vote against changing the definition of marriage was like 74%. Bush only received 52% of the vote. Mathematics shows that Democrats and republicans voted for it. There are democrats and republicans who voted against as well, I am sure. Homophobia crosses all political, social, economic, religious boundaries so you can't say that one group supports and embraces division. It's everywhere, sad to say, even among Democrats. 2009: Mermaids and Dolphins... | |
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SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said: seekingtruth said: I don't think you can really put a blanket statement on a group like that. We have all done it to each other on this site from time to time, but it is not really accurate or fair assumption.
I voted for Bush. I don't hate gays. The vote against changing the definition of marriage was like 74%. Bush only received 52% of the vote. Mathematics shows that Democrats and republicans voted for it. There are democrats and republicans who voted against as well, I am sure. Homophobia crosses all political, social, economic, religious boundaries so you can't say that one group supports and embraces division. It's everywhere, sad to say, even among Democrats. I completely agree with you. And that's what bothers me about statements that say that a large majority of people who voted for Bush HATE homosexuals. I'm willing to admit that there are probably a larger percentage of conservatives that HATE homosexuals, but I think that even that number is a pretty small minority (even though some have said it's up to 90% of people who voted for Bush). I am by no means defending those people - I think they're incredibly ignorant - I'm just trying to say that it's not fair to say that about ALL people that voted for Bush because I know first hand that you can vote for Bush and not hate homosexuals. It just bums me out that people are stereotyping me based on my vote - NO ONE should have to be stereotyped....I don't use stereotypes. I dunno...that's just my 2 cents.... | |
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ReturnOfDOOK said: SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said: Homophobia crosses all political, social, economic, religious boundaries so you can't say that one group supports and embraces division. It's everywhere, sad to say, even among Democrats. I completely agree with you. And that's what bothers me about statements that say that a large majority of people who voted for Bush HATE homosexuals. I'm willing to admit that there are probably a larger percentage of conservatives that HATE homosexuals, but I think that even that number is a pretty small minority (even though some have said it's up to 90% of people who voted for Bush). I am by no means defending those people - I think they're incredibly ignorant - I'm just trying to say that it's not fair to say that about ALL people that voted for Bush because I know first hand that you can vote for Bush and not hate homosexuals. It just bums me out that people are stereotyping me based on my vote - NO ONE should have to be stereotyped....I don't use stereotypes. I dunno...that's just my 2 cents.... Well I don't believe 90% of Cons hate gays. And I don't believe you hate gays. But you can't deny that supporting the GOP is supporting the party that is engaging in homophobic politics. It wasn't the Democratic party that based much of their campaigning against gay men and women and it wasn't the Democratic party that got gay marriage bans on the ballots of 11 states during the presidential election. No matter how you slice it, you are in bed with homophobes, many who rank up in the top eschelons of power. The I-don't-hate-gays-but-I-love-supporting-or-voting-for-laws-to-discriminate-against-them argument falls completely flat among most of us gay Americans. 2009: Mermaids and Dolphins... | |
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Y'all know what I think (I wonder why this was posted) but lets hear from everyone else. | |
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SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said: seekingtruth said: I don't think you can really put a blanket statement on a group like that. We have all done it to each other on this site from time to time, but it is not really accurate or fair assumption.
I voted for Bush. I don't hate gays. The vote against changing the definition of marriage was like 74%. Bush only received 52% of the vote. Mathematics shows that Democrats and republicans voted for it. There are democrats and republicans who voted against as well, I am sure. Homophobia crosses all political, social, economic, religious boundaries so you can't say that one group supports and embraces division. It's everywhere, sad to say, even among Democrats. But it is certaintly stronger among Republicans, you can't deny that. And overall, I'm sure the average wasn't 72. Only in red states was it in the area of 75, give or take 3. That was only in red states. Yes, Democrats voted for it but not with the numbers that are being suggested. | |
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ReturnOfDOOK said: SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said: Homophobia crosses all political, social, economic, religious boundaries so you can't say that one group supports and embraces division. It's everywhere, sad to say, even among Democrats. I completely agree with you. And that's what bothers me about statements that say that a large majority of people who voted for Bush HATE homosexuals. I'm willing to admit that there are probably a larger percentage of conservatives that HATE homosexuals, but I think that even that number is a pretty small minority (even though some have said it's up to 90% of people who voted for Bush). I am by no means defending those people - I think they're incredibly ignorant - I'm just trying to say that it's not fair to say that about ALL people that voted for Bush because I know first hand that you can vote for Bush and not hate homosexuals. It just bums me out that people are stereotyping me based on my vote - NO ONE should have to be stereotyped....I don't use stereotypes. I dunno...that's just my 2 cents.... I didn't say all people...I said 90%. However, 100% of people that voted for Bush and/or support him and/or voted for the gay marriage ban (and at this point, we should just cut out the marriage part and call it "the gay ban") are supporting discrimination against gays, WHETHER THEY LIKE IT OR NOT. I will never back down from that statement. | |
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VinnyM27 said: ReturnOfDOOK said: I completely agree with you. And that's what bothers me about statements that say that a large majority of people who voted for Bush HATE homosexuals. I'm willing to admit that there are probably a larger percentage of conservatives that HATE homosexuals, but I think that even that number is a pretty small minority (even though some have said it's up to 90% of people who voted for Bush). I am by no means defending those people - I think they're incredibly ignorant - I'm just trying to say that it's not fair to say that about ALL people that voted for Bush because I know first hand that you can vote for Bush and not hate homosexuals. It just bums me out that people are stereotyping me based on my vote - NO ONE should have to be stereotyped....I don't use stereotypes. I dunno...that's just my 2 cents.... I didn't say all people...I said 90%. However, 100% of people that voted for Bush and/or support him and/or voted for the gay marriage ban (and at this point, we should just cut out the marriage part and call it "the gay ban") are supporting discrimination against gays, WHETHER THEY LIKE IT OR NOT. I will never back down from that statement. For one, I think the 90% figure is off. Secondly, you're wrong when saying that people who voted for Bush are "supporting discrimination against gays". I don't necessarily support the death penalty, but I support Bush on the war on terror. I don't support the idea of legalizing illegal immigrants, but I support Bush when it comes to his plan to try to stimulate the economy. People vote on many issues when they choose a candidate. People support a CANDIDATE, not necessarily EVERYTHING that the candidate does. Maybe it's just semantics that's making this consusing between the two of us, but when you say "support discrimination" are you implying that they actively want/agree with discrimination? | |
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SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said: But you can't deny that supporting the GOP is supporting the party that is engaging in homophobic politics....The I-don't-hate-gays-but-I-love-supporting-or-voting-for-laws-to-discriminate-against-them argument falls completely flat among most of us gay Americans. Funny…you seem to be suggesting that this issue is the most important issue on the ballot. A person may have supported Bu$h for reasons other than their views of homosexuality. Oddly, you choose to completely ignore that possibility? Certainly 90% of Bu$h supporters DO NOT hate homosexuals. How selfish of you…and how single-minded. I suppose an argument could be made that supporting a specific candidate is an endorsement of ALL their political objectives. But that would ignore the fact we have a limited choice of candidates to choose from. FYI: I didn’t vote for Bu$h—and I can’t think of anything better FOR this world than finding someone you love, and growing old with them. I don’t care what gender you choose, I will support it. | |
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ReturnOfDOOK said: People vote on many issues when they choose a candidate. People support a CANDIDATE, not necessarily EVERYTHING that the candidate does.
While you make a good point here, the fact that your candidate is against allowing certain Americans their rights as citizens and human beings on this planet because of their sexual preference is a major issue - and it is something he touts as moral and religious as well. I do believe that most people that voted Bush do think along the same lines as he and support his idealogy on the major issues... and gay marriage and/or rights for same sex partners is a major issue. Does it mean that you "hate" gays? No - but you supported someone who believes that they do not deserve the same rights as any other American simply because they are gay. "I think one of the things that we're probably proudest of -- I certainly am -- is that the message was always love, in any form we portrayed it." - Paul McCartney | |
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SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said: ReturnOfDOOK said: I completely agree with you. And that's what bothers me about statements that say that a large majority of people who voted for Bush HATE homosexuals. I'm willing to admit that there are probably a larger percentage of conservatives that HATE homosexuals, but I think that even that number is a pretty small minority (even though some have said it's up to 90% of people who voted for Bush). I am by no means defending those people - I think they're incredibly ignorant - I'm just trying to say that it's not fair to say that about ALL people that voted for Bush because I know first hand that you can vote for Bush and not hate homosexuals. It just bums me out that people are stereotyping me based on my vote - NO ONE should have to be stereotyped....I don't use stereotypes. I dunno...that's just my 2 cents.... Well I don't believe 90% of Cons hate gays. And I don't believe you hate gays. But you can't deny that supporting the GOP is supporting the party that is engaging in homophobic politics. It wasn't the Democratic party that based much of their campaigning against gay men and women and it wasn't the Democratic party that got gay marriage bans on the ballots of 11 states during the presidential election. No matter how you slice it, you are in bed with homophobes, many who rank up in the top eschelons of power. The I-don't-hate-gays-but-I-love-supporting-or-voting-for-laws-to-discriminate-against-them argument falls completely flat among most of us gay Americans. Supa, you know I completely respect your opinion....And, I don't deny that the GOP is the party trying to ban gay marriage, etc - I'm not super gun-ho about how I feel about the issue. I can see both sides and, while I definitely lean towards one side, there's tons of reasons why the other side makes sense as well. I guess it just bothers me that some people can take one vote and use it to paint ME (again, I know you're not accusing me) and people who are similar to me in political ideology with blanket statements like "he obviously hates gays". My mother is a great example of this: she is pretty left when it comes to most social issues. She does community service, donates more money than I can imagine, helps the poor, etc....She's a classic social liberal in my book. I know she wasn't happy with Bush, etc but when I talked to her after the election, she surprised me - the reason she voted Bush (which I honestly still can't believe she did) was because of partial birth abortion (which I know how you feel about and I respect that). That was the one issue she voted on. For me, that really wasn't an issue - I tend to stay away from the abortion issue on this board because it's not a make or break issue for me at this point. Her sister is a lesbian and my mom loves her just the same - so, the fact that she voted Bush has NOTHING to do with her feelings towards homosexuals - I guess that's my main point - you can't take one vote and really know what makes a person tick. (am I making any sense?) | |
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DuckPurple said: FYI: I didn’t vote for Bu$h—and I can’t think of anything better FOR this world than finding someone you love, and growing old with them. I don’t care what gender you choose, I will support it. 
now, why wasn't your ass on the ballot??? | |
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DiminutiveRocker said: ReturnOfDOOK said: People vote on many issues when they choose a candidate. People support a CANDIDATE, not necessarily EVERYTHING that the candidate does.
While you make a good point here, the fact that your candidate is against allowing certain Americans their rights as citizens and human beings on this planet because of their sexual preference is a major issue - and it is something he touts as moral and religious as well. I do believe that most people that voted Bush do think along the same lines as he and support his idealogy on the major issues... and gay marriage and/or rights for same sex partners is a major issue. Does it mean that you "hate" gays? No - but you supported someone who believes that they do not deserve the same rights as any other American simply because they are gay. Like I've said before, the main reasons I voted for Bush had to do with his vision in the war on terror, his conviction, his vision for the economy, etc. The gay marriage issue wasn't even something I considered voting on. It's going to be interesting in 2008 when people like Rudy and McCain may potentially get into the mix. I know that Rudy is liberal on some aspects that Republicans are truly against. But, if it turns out that Republicans see a good leader in Rudy, there's a chance that they might vote for him, even though there are some semi-major issues that he supports - would that mean that conservatives somehow magically switched positions on these issues? Of course not - it means that they thought that he was the better man for the job... | |
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DuckPurple said: SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said: But you can't deny that supporting the GOP is supporting the party that is engaging in homophobic politics....The I-don't-hate-gays-but-I-love-supporting-or-voting-for-laws-to-discriminate-against-them argument falls completely flat among most of us gay Americans. Funny…you seem to be suggesting that this issue is the most important issue on the ballot. A person may have supported Bu$h for reasons other than their views of homosexuality. Oddly, you choose to completely ignore that possibility? For many people it was. Certainly more important than the matters of war and death which our servicemen are facing on a daily basis. For many people abortion was the single most important factor. The Bush supporters I know (mostly family) voted for him solely on that issue alone. Certainly 90% of Bu$h supporters DO NOT hate homosexuals.
How selfish of you…and how single-minded. I suppose an argument could be made that supporting a specific candidate is an endorsement of ALL their political objectives. But that would ignore the fact we have a limited choice of candidates to choose from. FYI: I didn’t vote for Bu$h—and I can’t think of anything better FOR this world than finding someone you love, and growing old with them. I don’t care what gender you choose, I will support it. I never said 90% of Bush supporters hate gays but a lot of them do. I'd have a hard time plopping down in any small town in those 11 red-states where gay marriage blew up into a huge issue without having to probably fear for my life as a gay man. Certainly not all the people in red-states hates gay people but enough of them do. I've been to and through the south and the hostility I faced was not hidden. 2009: Mermaids and Dolphins... | |
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ReturnOfDOOK said: SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said: Well I don't believe 90% of Cons hate gays. And I don't believe you hate gays. But you can't deny that supporting the GOP is supporting the party that is engaging in homophobic politics. It wasn't the Democratic party that based much of their campaigning against gay men and women and it wasn't the Democratic party that got gay marriage bans on the ballots of 11 states during the presidential election. No matter how you slice it, you are in bed with homophobes, many who rank up in the top eschelons of power. The I-don't-hate-gays-but-I-love-supporting-or-voting-for-laws-to-discriminate-against-them argument falls completely flat among most of us gay Americans. Supa, you know I completely respect your opinion....And, I don't deny that the GOP is the party trying to ban gay marriage, etc - I'm not super gun-ho about how I feel about the issue. I can see both sides and, while I definitely lean towards one side, there's tons of reasons why the other side makes sense as well. I guess it just bothers me that some people can take one vote and use it to paint ME (again, I know you're not accusing me) and people who are similar to me in political ideology with blanket statements like "he obviously hates gays". My mother is a great example of this: she is pretty left when it comes to most social issues. She does community service, donates more money than I can imagine, helps the poor, etc....She's a classic social liberal in my book. I know she wasn't happy with Bush, etc but when I talked to her after the election, she surprised me - the reason she voted Bush (which I honestly still can't believe she did) was because of partial birth abortion (which I know how you feel about and I respect that). That was the one issue she voted on. For me, that really wasn't an issue - I tend to stay away from the abortion issue on this board because it's not a make or break issue for me at this point. Her sister is a lesbian and my mom loves her just the same - so, the fact that she voted Bush has NOTHING to do with her feelings towards homosexuals - I guess that's my main point - you can't take one vote and really know what makes a person tick. (am I making any sense?) don't get me started on Partial birth abortion  Bottom line is that many people who did vote on these phoney baloney values issue only considered the GOP stand on gays and abortion and completely disregarded all of the huge failings of the Bush administration in it's first 4 year term. It's one thing to support Bush in 2000. Who had any idea how radical his policies would be? It's another to support him after seeing all the ways he failed this country, especially on the Iraq war.
You agree with his "vision" of the war on terror but are you honestly going to tell me that he has executed that vision successfully? If you say yes, you are not being honest. Iraq is not a success. Afghanistan, although elections were held (thank god), is really a narco-state and the security issue is still horrible a few years in. I can't believe how many people turned a blind eye on all the crap Bush has pulled because he wants to save all the babies. It's the perfect storm for the GOP. Their hardcore supporters who vote for them on the abortion or gay issues won't ever hold them accountable for anything as long as they hear what they want to hear about those issues. . [Edited 11/23/04 8:50am] 2009: Mermaids and Dolphins... | |
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Let me put it this way: the general American public has some disdain for homosexuals. In the last two decades or so, society was making some progress on this issue. When questioned about various aspects of gay issues, most Americans--while admitting that they do not support gay marriage--do support civil unions. Well over one half of Americans believe that discrimination against gays is wrong. And well over one half agree that gay Americans should be protected under the Constitution. And even though over one half oppose adoption rights, that number had gone down in recent years. So, yes, there was some progress made.
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jackflash said: SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said: I think it's wrong to brand an entire political body but the political machine is riding a wave of homophobia. Nobody can justify denying us our rights as American citizens. Gay marriage has nothing to do with morality and everything to do with rights.
"I don't hate gays.....I just don't want them to have equal rights". That certainly is not a position of love. Any gay person who supported the GOP has sold themselves, and us as well, out. Isn't Ken Mehlman (Bush's campaign director, and incoming head of the GOP) gay? (Maybe that's just a rumor.) When asked, he decided not to answer the question. Huh? If one is straight, one would not have a problem, and in fact, would probably answer it right away. You can read the other thread entitled, "The Hypocrisy Of the Right is Simply Astounding." There's an article I posted about Ken Mehlman. | |
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i'd like to suggest one thing to throw into the mix, if i can:
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VinnyM27 said: ReturnOfDOOK said: I completely agree with you. And that's what bothers me about statements that say that a large majority of people who voted for Bush HATE homosexuals. I'm willing to admit that there are probably a larger percentage of conservatives that HATE homosexuals, but I think that even that number is a pretty small minority (even though some have said it's up to 90% of people who voted for Bush). I am by no means defending those people - I think they're incredibly ignorant - I'm just trying to say that it's not fair to say that about ALL people that voted for Bush because I know first hand that you can vote for Bush and not hate homosexuals. It just bums me out that people are stereotyping me based on my vote - NO ONE should have to be stereotyped....I don't use stereotypes. I dunno...that's just my 2 cents.... I didn't say all people...I said 90%. However, 100% of people that voted for Bush and/or support him and/or voted for the gay marriage ban (and at this point, we should just cut out the marriage part and call it "the gay ban") are supporting discrimination against gays, WHETHER THEY LIKE IT OR NOT. I will never back down from that statement. I do believe that John Kerry was against gay marriage too. So wouldn't this also apply to Kerry voters? Louie Gohmert Speaker of the House 2011 | |
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when y'all gonna stop thinking that because people voted for bush they must hate this or that -- can't you see that there might be at least a few things in the democratic agenda that people don't feel they can morally support? ethically, i couldn't see myself voting for either party -- such nastiness! but what do you do when there's only two parties that ever have a chance at winning unless we can see past this political bullshit that seems to have most all of y'all under some kind of f'ing trance | |
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