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Edwards and NC's Health Care "Crisis" "Edwards' MalpracticeSuits Leave Bitter Taste"
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poor doctors.....fucking up surgeries and having to take responsiblity for it....
Power tends to corrupt and absolute power corrupts absolutely. | |
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ReturnOfDOOK said: "Edwards' MalpracticeSuits Leave Bitter Taste"
By Charles Hurt THE WASHINGTON TIMES Published August 16, 2004 ----- The American Medical Association lists North Carolina's current health care situation as a "crisis" and blames it on medical-malpractice lawsuits such as the ones that made Democratic vice-presidential candidate Sen. John Edwards a millionaire many times over. One of the most successful personal-injury lawyers in North Carolina history, Mr. Edwards won dozens of lawsuits against doctors and hospitals across the state that he now represents in the Senate. He won more than 50 cases with verdicts or settlements of $1 million or more, according to North Carolina Lawyers Weekly, and 31 of those were medical-malpractice suits. During his 20 years of suing doctors and hospitals, he pioneered the art of blaming psychiatrists for patients who commit suicide and blaming doctors for delivering babies with cerebral palsy, according to doctors, fellow lawyers and legal observers who followed Mr. Edwards' career in North Carolina. "The John Edwards we know crushed [obstetrics, gynecology] and neurosurgery in North Carolina," said Dr. Craig VanDerVeer, a Charlotte neurosurgeon. "As a result, thousands of patients lost their health care." "And all of this for the little people?" he asked, a reference to Mr. Edwards' argument that he represented regular people against mighty foes such as prosperous doctors and big insurance companies. "How many little people do you know who will supply you with $60 million in legal fees over a couple of years?" Through a spokeswoman, Mr. Edwards declined to comment beyond e-mailing his and John Kerry's "real plan for medical-malpractice reform." The plan calls for one measure that Mr. Edwards previously had said is meaningless and does not impose caps on verdicts for economic damages or limits on attorneys' fees. One of his most noted victories was a $23 million settlement he got from a 1995 case -- his last before joining the Senate -- in which he sued the doctor, gynecological clinic, anesthesiologist and hospital involved in the birth of Bailey Griffin, who had cerebral palsy and other medical problems. Linking complications during childbirth to cerebral palsy became a specialty for Mr. Edwards. In the courtroom, he was known to dramatize the events at birth by speaking to jurors as if he were the unborn baby, begging for help, begging to be let out of the womb. "He was very good at it," said Dr. John Schmitt, an obstetrician and gynecologist who used to practice in Mr. Edwards' hometown of Raleigh. "But the science behind a lot of his arguments was flawed." In 2003, the American Academy of Pediatrics and the American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists published a joint study that cast serious doubt on whether events at childbirth cause cerebral palsy. The "vast majority" of cerebral palsy cases originate long before childbirth, according to the study. "Now, he would have a much harder time proving a lot of his cases," said Dr. Schmitt, who now practices at the University of Virginia Health System. Another profitable area of litigation for Mr. Edwards was lawsuits against psychiatrists whose patients committed suicide. In 1991, he won $2.2 million for the estate of a woman who hanged herself in a hospital after being removed from suicide watch. It was the first successful medical-malpractice case in Mr. Edwards' home of Wake County. During jury selection, Mr. Edwards asked potential jurors whether they could hold a doctor responsible for the suicide of their patients. "I got a lot of speeches from potential jurors who said they did not understand how that doctor could be responsible," Mr. Edwards recalled in an interview shortly after the trial. Those persons were excluded from the jury. In the end, Mr. Edwards scored $1.5 million for "wrongful death" and $175,000 in "emotional distress" for the woman's children. "One thing I was grappling with was how to explain to the jury the difference between loss of companionship and society -- the things under the wrongful-death statute -- and emotional pain and suffering, which superficially sound like the same thing," he said at the time. "What we did was to tell them the wrongful-death damages are for the loss of all the things that a mother does for the child. But the emotional pain and suffering damages represent the grieving. The pain is something you feel over the death of your mother." In 1995, as Mr. Edwards neared the pinnacle of his success, Lawyers Weekly reported on the state's 50 biggest settlements of the year. "Like last year, the medical malpractice category leads the new list, accounting for 16 cases -- or 32 percent -- three points better than last year," the magazine reported. "By and large, that upward trend had held since 1992, when only four [medical malpractice] cases made the survey." Mr. Edwards was singled out. "Another reason for this year's [medical malpractice] jump was a strong showing by the Raleigh firm of Edwards & Kirby," it reported. "Partner John Edwards was lead counsel in eight of the 16 medical malpractice cases in the top 50." Later in that article, Mr. Edwards was interviewed about the $5 million he won from doctors who delivered Ethan L. Bedrick, who had cerebral palsy. Mr. Edwards credited the jury focus groups that he routinely used to help prepare his arguments. "They gave me several bits and pieces of information to use when addressing the jury," Mr. Edwards was quoted saying. "You can use them to decide whether to get involved in a case or whether to accept a settlement offer, but our primary use is trial presentation." The article went on to observe: "Focus groups can be put together for as little as $300, according to Edwards -- a small investment compared to the $5 million won in Bedrick." It is not clear just how much Mr. Edwards made as a lawyer, but estimates based on a review of his lawsuit settlements and Senate records place his fortune at about $38 million. Like many Democrats, Mr. Edwards has benefited from the generosity of fellow trial lawyers, who have given millions of dollars to Mr. Edwards' political campaigns and other political endeavors. Part of the platform that Mr. Edwards is running on includes medical-malpractice reform. The Democrats' plan would go after insurance companies that increase doctors' premiums and ban lawyers and plaintiffs for 10 years if they file three frivolous lawsuits. One tenet of their plan would "require that individuals making medical-malpractice claims first go before a qualified medical specialist to make sure a reasonable grievance exists." However, Mr. Edwards said in a 1995 interview that such pre-screening is unnecessary. "Pre-screening as a concept is very good, but it's already done by every experienced malpractice lawyer," he told North Carolina Lawyers Weekly. As a result of these and other cases, insurance rates for doctors have skyrocketed -- putting some out of business and driving others away, especially from rural areas. And doctors who have lost cases to Mr. Edwards have been bankrupted. Patients, meanwhile, are left with rising health care costs and fewer -- if any -- doctors in their area. It is increasingly a nationwide problem, physicians say. Dr. VanDerVeer, the Charlotte neurosurgeon, recalled one recent night on duty when two patients arrived in an emergency room in Myrtle Beach, S.C., where the area's last neurosurgeons quit earlier this year. "No one in Myrtle Beach would accept responsibility for these patients," he said. And because it was raining, the helicopters were grounded, so the patients were loaded into ambulances and driven the four hours to Charlotte. Upon arrival, one patient had died, and the other learned that she merely had a minor concussion -- and a $6,000 bill for the ambulance ride. "That's just one little slice of life here," Dr. VanDerVeer said. "It's a direct result of the medical-malpractice situation that John Edwards fomented." Dr. Schmitt had spent 20 years delivering babies in Raleigh. Though he had no claims against him, his insurance tripled in one year. With no assurances that his rates would ever drop, or just stop rising, he left town. For Mr. Edwards' part, he doesn't necessarily begrudge the doctors he sues. In the book he wrote while campaigning for president, "Four Trials," Mr. Edwards referred to the doctors who he'd won millions from in two cases. "In the E.G. Sawyer case and the Jennifer Campbell case, the defendants were not malevolent but were caring and competent doctors who worked in good hospitals and yet made grievous mistakes," he wrote. "They had erred in their judgment, but no one could despise them." Doctors, however, take it all a bit more personally. "We are currently being sued out of existence," Dr. VanDerVeer said. "People have to choose whether they want these lawyers to make gazillions of dollars in pain and suffering awards or whether they want health care." http://www.washingtontime...-1949r.htm This is for sosgemini! AGREED! "I think one of the things that we're probably proudest of -- I certainly am -- is that the message was always love, in any form we portrayed it." - Paul McCartney | |
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I am a former Medical Malpractice underwriter tech for a major insurance provider and the article is no surprise. It is an absolute disgrace the things that people sue doctors for.
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seekingtruth said: I am a former Medical Malpractice underwriter tech for a major insurance provider and the article is no surprise. It is an absolute disgrace the things that people sue doctors for.
Suing for common mistakes would be one thing, but the fact that somebody is blaming the ob/gyn for Cerebral Palsy does not say much for the character of Mr. Edwards. It is a bit unnerving that a man who would so openly thrive off the misfortunes of our self-sacrificing medical physicians is wanting to be apart of the executive office of our country. self-sacraficing medical physicians? oh yes, doctors only get into the profession because they want to help people..... (I)HMO laugh my ass off..... Power tends to corrupt and absolute power corrupts absolutely. | |
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sosgemini said: seekingtruth said: I am a former Medical Malpractice underwriter tech for a major insurance provider and the article is no surprise. It is an absolute disgrace the things that people sue doctors for.
Suing for common mistakes would be one thing, but the fact that somebody is blaming the ob/gyn for Cerebral Palsy does not say much for the character of Mr. Edwards. It is a bit unnerving that a man who would so openly thrive off the misfortunes of our self-sacrificing medical physicians is wanting to be apart of the executive office of our country. self-sacraficing medical physicians? oh yes, doctors only get into the profession because they want to help people..... (I)HMO laugh my ass off..... Easy to say when you are sitting in front of a computer screen with all vital signs in working order. Let's see what tone you take when your life is in one of their hands. If you were in a near fatal car crash, I am sure you would be singing a different song altogether. | |
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seekingtruth said: sosgemini said: self-sacraficing medical physicians? oh yes, doctors only get into the profession because they want to help people..... (I)HMO laugh my ass off..... Easy to say when you are sitting in front of a computer screen with all vital signs in working order. Let's see what tone you take when your life is in one of their hands. If you were in a near fatal car crash, I am sure you would be singing a different song altogether. reaching!! your reaching..... the fact of the matter is that doctors are highly paid individuals who are targets if they make errors..."if" they make errors....our states and legislators can pass laws limiting the amount of compensation individuals can recieve for these errors..but dont be pulling this "moral higher ground" just because individuals and their lawyers are capitalizing on these errors..... isnt that what capitalism is all about? isnt that the heart of the republican party? Power tends to corrupt and absolute power corrupts absolutely. | |
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I'm not a republican, although not necessarily a democrat. I choose to make my decisions based on sense; partisanship only makes sense most of the time.
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sosgemini said: seekingtruth said: Easy to say when you are sitting in front of a computer screen with all vital signs in working order. Let's see what tone you take when your life is in one of their hands. If you were in a near fatal car crash, I am sure you would be singing a different song altogether. reaching!! your reaching..... the fact of the matter is that doctors are highly paid individuals who are targets if they make errors..."if" they make errors....our states and legislators can pass laws limiting the amount of compensation individuals can recieve for these errors..but dont be pulling this "moral higher ground" just because individuals and their lawyers are capitalizing on these errors..... isnt that what capitalism is all about? isnt that the heart of the republican party? One clearly has the moral high-ground, I think... Ya know...there are lots of lawyer jokes, usually involving murdering them. I don't hear many "doctor jokes" though. Fear is the mind-killer. | |
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teller said: sosgemini said: reaching!! your reaching..... the fact of the matter is that doctors are highly paid individuals who are targets if they make errors..."if" they make errors....our states and legislators can pass laws limiting the amount of compensation individuals can recieve for these errors..but dont be pulling this "moral higher ground" just because individuals and their lawyers are capitalizing on these errors..... isnt that what capitalism is all about? isnt that the heart of the republican party? One clearly has the moral high-ground, I think... Ya know...there are lots of lawyer jokes, usually involving murdering them. I don't hear many "doctor jokes" though. you of all people should be celebrating the entrepreneurship of lawyers.... you all act like these laywers arent taking these cases pro-bona..... Power tends to corrupt and absolute power corrupts absolutely. | |
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teller said: sosgemini said: reaching!! your reaching..... the fact of the matter is that doctors are highly paid individuals who are targets if they make errors..."if" they make errors....our states and legislators can pass laws limiting the amount of compensation individuals can recieve for these errors..but dont be pulling this "moral higher ground" just because individuals and their lawyers are capitalizing on these errors..... isnt that what capitalism is all about? isnt that the heart of the republican party? One clearly has the moral high-ground, I think... Ya know...there are lots of lawyer jokes, usually involving murdering them. I don't hear many "doctor jokes" though. WELL DOCTOR SAY ABOVE ALL DO NO HARM LAWYER SAY ABOVE ALL GET LOT OF MONEY! P o o |/, P o o |\ | |
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POOK said: teller said: One clearly has the moral high-ground, I think... Ya know...there are lots of lawyer jokes, usually involving murdering them. I don't hear many "doctor jokes" though. WELL DOCTOR SAY ABOVE ALL DO NO HARM LAWYER SAY ABOVE ALL GET LOT OF MONEY! just like republicans, right? this whole argument is silly..and the fact that conservatives are making them make it even worse... Power tends to corrupt and absolute power corrupts absolutely. | |
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There was no argument. The original post was an article that showed some possible indescresions by John Edwards. There was not argument made until the second post drew the conclusion that the original post was made as an argument against liberals.
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seekingtruth said: There was no argument. The original post was an article that showed some possible indescresions by John Edwards. There was not argument made until the second post drew the conclusion that the original post was made as an argument against liberals.
Makes you wonder why the more obvious liberals are taking such a defensive stance. the argument is that somehow lawyers are immoral...thats the silly argument trying to be made by this article..... Power tends to corrupt and absolute power corrupts absolutely. | |
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sosgemini said: funny how republicans want big business to fuck up the economy, fuck up iraq and fuck up our health all in the name of free-market but when a laywer (a business is a business) works the system..."OH NO!! YOU CANT DO THAT!!!" can i get an eye roll? Well isn't that just irony? 2009: Mermaids and Dolphins... | |
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I think the connies are just afraid to have a lawyer in the White House because of their guilt in raping the economy for their friends in Corporate America. 2009: Mermaids and Dolphins... | |
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sosgemini said: seekingtruth said: There was no argument. The original post was an article that showed some possible indescresions by John Edwards. There was not argument made until the second post drew the conclusion that the original post was made as an argument against liberals.
Makes you wonder why the more obvious liberals are taking such a defensive stance. the argument is that somehow lawyers are immoral...thats the silly argument trying to be made by this article..... The point of the article was to show the kind of business that John Edwards ran before he was in politics. It didn't make a blanket statement towards lawyers. It claimed that John Edwards was immoral. Two points should be made: One, although it is not more moral to practice loop hole logic at the expense of these doctors, the law allows it. Immoral and unethical, therefore are not synonymous. Two, this is a very good argument. We are looking at possibly putting this man in a national office. We need to look at the conduct of all the candidates, republican and democratic. If you are going to act like the frustration being shown is in defense of lawyers and not John Edwards, I am afraid you are not being honest with yourself. | |
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Uh...is it too much of a stretch to say that doctors do more good than lawyers? To say otherwise just to get a cheap poke in at the right is a little much... Fear is the mind-killer. | |
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so to teller and seekingtruth;
Power tends to corrupt and absolute power corrupts absolutely. | |
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sosgemini said: POOK said: WELL DOCTOR SAY ABOVE ALL DO NO HARM LAWYER SAY ABOVE ALL GET LOT OF MONEY! just like republicans, right? this whole argument is silly..and the fact that conservatives are making them make it even worse... POOK NOT UNDERSTAND HOW DOCTOR AND LAWYER LIKE REPUBLICAN? P o o |/, P o o |\ | |
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sosgemini said: so to teller and seekingtruth;
who is supposed the represent the wronged? a perfect example: Erin Brokovich... who would have defended these people? Big Business? are Erin and her lawyers immoral? you speak of loopholes? where is there a loophools? with judges? with the juries? who are the juries representing? Lawyers are needed, of course. It's just that there are way too many friviolous lawsuits, ambulance chasers, etc. It's inherent in the profession, at least in our system--lawyers get paid big bucks to be dishonest. The medical profession cannot be compared to this. Fear is the mind-killer. | |
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sosgemini said: so to teller and seekingtruth;
who is supposed the represent the wronged? a perfect example: Erin Brokovich... who would have defended these people? Big Business? are Erin and her lawyers immoral? you speak of loopholes? where is there a loophools? with judges? with the juries? who are the juries representing? There are lawyers that do good things. Even if 99% of lawyers do good things, that is not the point that I am supporting. In order to understand you have to look beyond what the judicial system allows (which is quite corrupt and can be dishonestly played for good or evil) and look at the ones that are doing it. If a doctor delivers a child with Cerebral Palsy, not probable that it occured as a result anything the doctor did, then it is dishonest and immoral according the facts presented. If John Edwards did this, it speaks horribly about him as a lawyer and human being. Keep in mind, this is a past occurence. If he came out with a bit of remorse about ruining these doctor's lives, that would say good things about his character. It takes more of a man to fall off a horse and get on then one who never fell off. | |
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seekingtruth said: sosgemini said: so to teller and seekingtruth;
who is supposed the represent the wronged? a perfect example: Erin Brokovich... who would have defended these people? Big Business? are Erin and her lawyers immoral? you speak of loopholes? where is there a loophools? with judges? with the juries? who are the juries representing? There are lawyers that do good things. Even if 99% of lawyers do good things, that is not the point that I am supporting. In order to understand you have to look beyond what the judicial system allows (which is quite corrupt and can be dishonestly played for good or evil) and look at the ones that are doing it. If a doctor delivers a child with Cerebral Palsy, not probable that it occured as a result anything the doctor did, then it is dishonest and immoral according the facts presented. If John Edwards did this, it speaks horribly about him as a lawyer and human being. Keep in mind, this is a past occurence. If he came out with a bit of remorse about ruining these doctor's lives, that would say good things about his character. It takes more of a man to fall off a horse and get on then one who never fell off. oh, so you were privy to the exact same information the juries recieved? and bad on Edwards for using jury focus groups to benifit his clients... the shame!! lawyers trying to win cases for their clients? psst!! my lord, is this what conservatives are running against? we are fighting an unneccesary war...we are allowing our nations enviroment get run in the gutter.....bush is pushing our economy into a two class system with his heavy tilted towards the rich policies.. but yes, Edwards was a trial laywer that used all the rules in the book to win cases for his clients...and he profited from that.....the shame... Power tends to corrupt and absolute power corrupts absolutely. | |
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sosgemini said: seekingtruth said: There are lawyers that do good things. Even if 99% of lawyers do good things, that is not the point that I am supporting. In order to understand you have to look beyond what the judicial system allows (which is quite corrupt and can be dishonestly played for good or evil) and look at the ones that are doing it. If a doctor delivers a child with Cerebral Palsy, not probable that it occured as a result anything the doctor did, then it is dishonest and immoral according the facts presented. If John Edwards did this, it speaks horribly about him as a lawyer and human being. Keep in mind, this is a past occurence. If he came out with a bit of remorse about ruining these doctor's lives, that would say good things about his character. It takes more of a man to fall off a horse and get on then one who never fell off. oh, so you were privy to the exact same information the juries recieved? and bad on Edwards for using jury focus groups to benifit his clients... the shame!! lawyers trying to win cases for their clients? psst!! my lord, is this what conservatives are running against? we are fighting an unneccesary war...we are allowing our nations enviroment get run in the gutter.....bush is pushing our economy into a two class system with his heavy tilted towards the rich policies.. but yes, Edwards was a trial laywer that used all the rules in the book to win cases for his clients...and he profited from that.....the shame... I was waiting for the Bush comments and very surprised it took this long. This post is for opinions in reference to the conduct of John Edwards as a lawyer. I was taking the facts that were given in the post; that the lawsuit was citing the doctor for malpractice in delivering a CP baby. This is something that I do not need to be in a deliberating room to determine, because it is fact that a doctor, malpractice or no, can cause a baby to have Cerebral Palsy. In fact it was most likely the diet or habits of the mother that caused it. FACT. For argument sake, start a post of whether or not the war was unnecessary. For argument sake, start a post of whether or not the mythical Class war exists. Please include facts of some kind. | |
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seekingtruth said: This post is for opinions in reference to the conduct of John Edwards as a lawyer.
I was taking the facts that were given in the post; that the lawsuit was citing the doctor for malpractice in delivering a CP baby. This is something that I do not need to be in a deliberating room to determine, because it is fact that a doctor, malpractice or no, can cause a baby to have Cerebral Palsy. In fact it was most likely the diet or habits of the mother that caused it. FACT. For argument sake, start a post of whether or not the war was unnecessary. For argument sake, start a post of whether or not the mythical Class war exists. Please include facts of some kind. ehhhh....its a fact that a doctor can cause a baby to have Cerebral Pasly? In fact its most likely the mothers fault? But not 100% guarentee, huh? and your right, you werent in the deliberating room.....the only fact we can go on is that the jury (our peers) sited with Edwards and his client... Power tends to corrupt and absolute power corrupts absolutely. | |
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You are right. I do need more facts about these actual cases. I apologize for putting a standard on you that I did not exemplify.
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sosgemini said: poor doctors.....fucking up surgeries and having to take responsiblity for it....
bo hoo!!! this isnt an issue of laywers taking advantage of the system (after all, isnt that the republican way?).....if the people and legistation of the great state of North Carolina want change they can pass laws restricting cash awards..... funny how republicans want big business to fuck up the economy, fuck up iraq and fuck up our health all in the name of free-market but when a laywer (a business is a business) works the system..."OH NO!! YOU CANT DO THAT!!!" can i get an eye roll? I like the fact that Libertrains and Republicans always preach personal responsiblity, except when it comes to doctors and presidents (acting on "bad information"). | |
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teller said: sosgemini said: so to teller and seekingtruth;
who is supposed the represent the wronged? a perfect example: Erin Brokovich... who would have defended these people? Big Business? are Erin and her lawyers immoral? you speak of loopholes? where is there a loophools? with judges? with the juries? who are the juries representing? Lawyers are needed, of course. It's just that there are way too many friviolous lawsuits, ambulance chasers, etc. It's inherent in the profession, at least in our system--lawyers get paid big bucks to be dishonest. The medical profession cannot be compared to this. And the medical profession is always honest and noble and never gives people surgeries that they don't need. Indeed! | |
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seekingtruth said: Let's say the doctor was at fault; why would you sue for millions of dollars?Greed.
That's not entirely true. I watched a program on television about a family who was suing their doctor for this very issue. They have a daughter with severe cerebral palsy caused in childbirth and the child needs constant attention. The monies they will receive as a result of their law suit will afford them the aid they need to take care of their child so they can afford to provide not only for their other children and keeping food on the table and a roof over their heads, but in-home and hospital care. It was not greed at all, due to a doctor's neglect they were forced into a situation wherein they needed help to care for their severely mentally impaired child. And should they also be compensated for pain and suffering? Absolutely. "I think one of the things that we're probably proudest of -- I certainly am -- is that the message was always love, in any form we portrayed it." - Paul McCartney | |
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