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Printable version (Log in to 'subscribe' to this topic)333 said: What I am saying is this is a matter for God to sort out.
'Kill 'em ALL, God will know his own'? Really? Is that Christlike? You are assuming that because they call themselves Chirstians they are. I don't. You are assuming that because the church blessed the soldiers of both sides they are Christians. I don't.
No sir, actually I don't think they are all Christians. I'm only saying that Christians EXIST all over the world. If a Christian is in a war, and there is a Christian on the other side, a Christian will kill another Christian. Saying that God will not allow this to happen, or God will sort out who is the REAL Christian, is avoiding the issue. If a Christian supports his government by joining the military, and another one in another country does the same, if those two governments go to war, a Christian will, AND BE WILLING TO, kill another Christian. The allegiance to country will be above that to Christ, as one would be killing one of Christ's brothers. Could one side be right and another side wrong in a war? Sure!
But if a Christian was in the military on the 'wrong' side, allegiance to country would put him there. Do Christians loose their Christian status if the government they are supporting makes the 'wrong' choice? Should all Christians on the 'wrong' side go AWOL? Thus protecting their Christian alligiance? Case in point, Hitler. Did God want Hitler defeated? I think so yes. Did some in Hitlers armies believe they were Christian? I can't say for a fact there were but I don't doubt at least some did. Were they? I will let God be the judge of that.
I would rather not put my Christian brother / sister in a position where he / she might have to kill me. Every single decision we make, every breath we draw, opens some doors and closes many others. Most of them we don't notice. Some we do. | |
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TheOrgerFormerlyKnownAs said: OdysseyMiles said:  I'm not perfect! I make mistakes, and I'm definitely human (as far as I can tell). I think what Fantasy was saying was that many people have changed their lives for the better with the help of applied bible principals.
This does not make any Witness of Jehovah perfect or above anyone else. I'm sure there are plenty of so-called Witnesses out there who are leading double lives and doing their own thing, etc. In contrast, I also believe that many folks who have made tremendous changes do take a certain amount of pride in that, and I think they're entitled to feel good about it. It strengthens their faith and is an encouragement to others. 
I hear what you're saying but some of the things posted in this thread are a little misleading to me. I do not want anyone to think I'm picking on Witnesses, especially with me considering studying again. The most knowledge that I have gained has come from people like you. Let me ad to what Odyssey said....ok I am a baptized witness , my husband is not. I love him and he loves me. My husband smokes( not in the house) and occassionally uses bad language. People know I am a witness and they see what he does , and go off and say oh I know a witness that smokes and etc. My husband is studying and knows it is the truth, however he is trying to make changes that only he can make. May i ask you orger formely... what made you stop studying? | |
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zkp2003 said: TheOrgerFormerlyKnownAs said: Hey Odysssey!
I hear what you're saying but some of the things posted in this thread are a little misleading to me. I do not want anyone to think I'm picking on Witnesses, especially with me considering studying again. The most knowledge that I have gained has come from people like you. Let me ad to what Odyssey said....ok I am a baptized witness , my husband is not. I love him and he loves me. My husband smokes( not in the house) and occassionally uses bad language. People know I am a witness and they see what he does , and go off and say oh I know a witness that smokes and etc. My husband is studying and knows it is the truth, however he is trying to make changes that only he can make. May i ask you orger formely... what made you stop studying? | |
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NotDeaf said: 333 said: What I am saying is this is a matter for God to sort out.
'Kill 'em ALL, God will know his own'? Really? Is that Christlike? Oh come now NotDeaf. You know good and well that is not what I am talking about or even suggesting. All I meant was that I cannot judge the hearts and minds of every person. Only God can do that. "Freedom is the freedom to say that two plus two make four. If that is granted, all else follows." | |
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333 said: NotDeaf said: 'Kill 'em ALL, God will know his own'? Really? Is that Christlike? Oh come now NotDeaf. You know good and well that is not what I am talking about or even suggesting. All I meant was that I cannot judge the hearts and minds of every person. Only God can do that. You're right 333, only Jah knows the heart. But an excellent point was made. NotDeaf said: If a Christian supports his government by joining the military, and another one in another country does the same, if those two governments go to war, a Christian will, AND BE WILLING TO, kill another Christian. The allegiance to country will be above that to Christ, as one would be killing one of Christ's brothers.
In my mind, I cannot see how this can be justified. | |
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333 said: NotDeaf said: 'Kill 'em ALL, God will know his own'? Really? Is that Christlike? Oh come now NotDeaf. You know good and well that is not what I am talking about or even suggesting. All I meant was that I cannot judge the hearts and minds of every person. Only God can do that. so let's say you go to war. in your heart you believe you are a christian. on the other side is a person who also believes they are a christian. but you're shooting at eachother, trying to kill eachother. is that christlike? can you really call yourself a christian when you're trying to kill someone? and is it ok to kill the other person as long as it's not a christian, because then you're not killing your "brother"? i just don't understand where you're coming from on this. | |
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I think the keyword missing here is choice. We can either be a follower of Christ and the bible or we can choose to just study it. Jehovah clearly wants us all to make a conscience decision on who's side we are on by giving us an overabundance of information, events and knowledge set forth in the bible. (2 Tim 3:16) Throughout the century's we have seen what the ill-effect of man dominating man has done to human existance. (Ecl 8:9) Sugarcoating the issue of war or even "world war" should not be taken lightly. Shadrack, Meeshack, and Abendego (spelling?) chose "not" to bow down to the golden image as a sign of worship. That in itself should set a precedent for us today. The bible says that who ever wants to be "friends" with the world is constituting himself an "enemy" of God. (James 4:4) It even says to "make" a decision for those who are "indecisive". I think this idea of sitting in the backround just waiting to see what Jehovah does in reference to things smacks of laziness. Again, I think Jehovah has given us all "thinking ability" as with conscience which should draw us to conviction. That is why I tend to love being J.W. so much because even though we have our problems and issues we still consistently push forward to get things right. | |
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OdysseyMiles said: You're right 333, only Jah knows the heart. But an excellent point was made.
NotDeaf said: If a Christian supports his government by joining the military, and another one in another country does the same, if those two governments go to war, a Christian will, AND BE WILLING TO, kill another Christian. The allegiance to country will be above that to Christ, as one would be killing one of Christ's brothers.
In my mind, I cannot see how this can be justified. I am not trying to justified war or killing. But on the other hand, I cannot tell someone they are not a Christian because they are in the military and may have to fight a war. [This message was edited Thu Aug 5 10:48:47 2004 by 333] "Freedom is the freedom to say that two plus two make four. If that is granted, all else follows." | |
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TheOrgerFormerlyKnownAs said: zkp2003 said: Let me ad to what Odyssey said....ok I am a baptized witness , my husband is not. I love him and he loves me. My husband smokes( not in the house) and occassionally uses bad language. People know I am a witness and they see what he does , and go off and say oh I know a witness that smokes and etc. My husband is studying and knows it is the truth, however he is trying to make changes that only he can make. May i ask you orger formely... what made you stop studying? That is exactly right ,it is about your relationship with God. All though there are some in Jehovahs orginization that do lead double lives, for the most part people are really trying to live there lives in accordance to Bible principles. The Bible says not to isolate ourselves, that we should gather together as to up build one another. We do need others, but God is first, we are serving him not men. I am sorry you were treated badly by witnesses. May I ask you in what way were you treated badly? | |
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TheOrgerFormerlyKnownAs said: fantasyislander said: we do try to make the world a better place- by teaching people the truth from the bible. do you know how many lives have been changed for the better by studying with JWs? how many men used to beat their wives? how many wives were degrading and belittling to their husbands? how many people used to steal and cheat? how many people used to get into fights and hurt others? how many people went to war and killed others? how many people used to be prostitutes and drug dealers? do you have any idea how many people's lives have changed, all because of studying the bible? it's an amazing thought, and something i am very proud to be a part of. I know of witnesses who still do all of the above. Not only does this thread point to witnesses considering themselves the only ones to be 'true christians' but it is so incredibly hypocritical. The witnesses I wish were on this thread are the ones that would tell you in a heartbeat that they are not perfect, that they make make mistakes, that they are human. I recently got back interested in studying but some of you guys on this thread.....whooo!!!! TOFKA, you know of active babtized Jehovah's Witnesses that beat their wives, steal, cheat, fight and harm others, go to war and kill others, prostitute themselves, and deal drugs??? I've known a few that have gotten involved with immorality and one that started secretly smoking marijana but those sins came to light and they were either disfellowship because they wanted to continue doing those things and hence are no longer JWs or they were helped to correct their course and stopped practicing those things...they repented. Many Christmas' ago, I went to buy a doll for my son. I reached for the last one they had, but so did another man. As I rained blows upon him, I realized there had to be another way. | |
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zkp2003 said: TheOrgerFormerlyKnownAs said: I came across some Witnesses that treated me badly so I stopped studying. When I saw that there were Witnesses that did the things that they said they didn't do, I saw them as I have seen organized religion: Full of it. In my old age, I am learning more and more that it's not about the people, it's about my own personal relationship with God.
That is exactly right ,it is about your relationship with God. All though there are some in Jehovahs orginization that do lead double lives, for the most part people are really trying to live there lives in accordance to Bible principles. The Bible says not to isolate ourselves, that we should gather together as to up build one another. We do need others, but God is first, we are serving him not men. I am sorry you were treated badly by witnesses. May I ask you in what way were you treated badly? | |
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TheOrgerFormerlyKnownAs said: zkp2003 said: Let me ad to what Odyssey said....ok I am a baptized witness , my husband is not. I love him and he loves me. My husband smokes( not in the house) and occassionally uses bad language. People know I am a witness and they see what he does , and go off and say oh I know a witness that smokes and etc. My husband is studying and knows it is the truth, however he is trying to make changes that only he can make. May i ask you orger formely... what made you stop studying? Yup- that's why I quit, all the hypocrisy from those that claimed to be true Christians, particulary from their leadership (elders). JWs try very hard to be christians and are sincere in their efforts but level of effort isn't the sign of the one and only true religoon. We need to see the JW religion for what it is: just another religion with its plusses and minuses. This will become more clear as "new light" comes from the Society and unscriptural doctrines like no blood transfusions are quietly removed in the next 50 years. Then in 50 - 100 years JWs will look like any other religion today, albeit trying a bit harder. David | |
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333 said: OdysseyMiles said: In my mind, I cannot see how this can be justified. I am not trying to justified war or killing. But on the other hand, I cannot tell someone they are not a Christian because they are in the military and may have to fight a war. You don't have to tell them. The bible does. If they choose to fight in a war, that's their choice. Nobody said they had to, though. Fighting in a war is not showing love to your neighbor, or brother. This is why I would never join the military or run for office. I know that at some point, I would be put in a faith-compromising position. Every day I'd have to ask myself "o.k., do I obey God, or men?" | |
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jojofran said: I think the keyword missing here is choice. We can either be a follower of Christ and the bible or we can choose to just study it. Jehovah clearly wants us all to make a conscience decision on who's side we are on by giving us an overabundance of information, events and knowledge set forth in the bible. (2 Tim 3:16) Throughout the century's we have seen what the ill-effect of man dominating man has done to human existance. (Ecl 8:9) Sugarcoating the issue of war or even "world war" should not be taken lightly. Shadrack, Meeshack, and Abendego (spelling?) chose "not" to bow down to the golden image as a sign of worship. ....
This is way off topic but you reminded me of this hilarious story I heard a while back and I just have to share it. This is supposedly a true story. At a bookstudy (for non JWs this is a weekly congregation study from one of our publications that's usually held at different homes in smaller groups of around 10 to 20 people) they were covering a paragraph about Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego refusing to bow to the image. A little brother around 7 years old raised his hand high wanting to comment on one of his favorite bible stories. The brother conducting called on him and he says, "Well, when they told them to bow down to the image, Shad-rack, Mee-shack, and A-big-negro....". Riotous laughter broke out and it took about 5 minutes before anyone could regain their composure enough to continue the study. The poor little brother didnt even realize what he'd said that was so funny other than mispronounce the Abednego's name. They said the brother conducting was in fact a large black man and he had tears streaming down his face he was laughing so hard. Many Christmas' ago, I went to buy a doll for my son. I reached for the last one they had, but so did another man. As I rained blows upon him, I realized there had to be another way. | |
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ekalb101 said: TheOrgerFormerlyKnownAs said: I know of witnesses who still do all of the above. Not only does this thread point to witnesses considering themselves the only ones to be 'true christians' but it is so incredibly hypocritical. The witnesses I wish were on this thread are the ones that would tell you in a heartbeat that they are not perfect, that they make make mistakes, that they are human. I recently got back interested in studying but some of you guys on this thread.....whooo!!!! TOFKA, you know of active babtized Jehovah's Witnesses that beat their wives, steal, cheat, fight and harm others, go to war and kill others, prostitute themselves, and deal drugs??? I've known a few that have gotten involved with immorality and one that started secretly smoking marijana but those sins came to light and they were either disfellowship because they wanted to continue doing those things and hence are no longer JWs or they were helped to correct their course and stopped practicing those things...they repented. What about all the ones that aren't caught? Oh right, Jehovah knows what's going on and will deal with them in "due time." David | |
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OdysseyMiles said: 333 said: I am not trying to justified war or killing. But on the other hand, I cannot tell someone they are not a Christian because they are in the military and may have to fight a war. You don't have to tell them. The bible does. If they choose to fight in a war, that's their choice. Nobody said they had to, though. Fighting in a war is not showing love to your neighbor, or brother. This is why I would never join the military or run for office. I know that at some point, I would be put in a faith-compromising position. Every day I'd have to ask myself "o.k., do I obey God, or men?" Really? Where? Be specific. As HiinEnkelte points out, according to the Watchtower: "Notice that there is no command in the Scriptures against military service" (Watchtower, Aug. 1, 1898, pg. 231). "There could be nothing against our conscience in going into the army. Wherever we would go we could take the Lord with us, the Captain of our salvation, and wherever we would go we could find opportunities to serve him and his cause" (THE WATCHTOWER, April 15, 1903, pg. 120). So what happened? Did the Watchtower miss it the first time around? Also, I don't see Jesus telling the centurion in Matt: 8 to get out of the military. I don't see Peter telling Cornelius a centurion in Acts 10 to get out of the military. It seems if Jesus and Peter saw it as a real problem they would have brought it up. For that matter at least one N.T. author could have pointed it out. And in the OT God does not seem to mind there being a military. [Edited 12/13/05 21:22pm] "Freedom is the freedom to say that two plus two make four. If that is granted, all else follows." | |
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TheOrgerFormerlyKnownAs said: zkp2003 said: That is exactly right ,it is about your relationship with God. All though there are some in Jehovahs orginization that do lead double lives, for the most part people are really trying to live there lives in accordance to Bible principles. The Bible says not to isolate ourselves, that we should gather together as to up build one another. We do need others, but God is first, we are serving him not men. I am sorry you were treated badly by witnesses. May I ask you in what way were you treated badly? Well, yes, I must admit I've known some troublemakers. I remember this one sister in particular that when I was growing up she was always stirring up some sort of trouble. She was counseled numerous times for gossiping and starting rumors. I suspect she was even given private reproof for it once. Practicing slander is a disfellowshipping offense. But you know she really was showing what her heart condition was. She eventually left the truth, started smoking, and moved in with some deadbeat guy. She still lives in that little small town and sometimes will shout and insult at JWs if she shes them walking down the street in their ministry. You can tell she's a very miserable person now. Many Christmas' ago, I went to buy a doll for my son. I reached for the last one they had, but so did another man. As I rained blows upon him, I realized there had to be another way. | |
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333 said: OdysseyMiles said: You don't have to tell them. The bible does. If they choose to fight in a war, that's their choice. Nobody said they had to, though. Fighting in a war is not showing love to your neighbor, or brother. This is why I would never join the military or run for office. I know that at some point, I would be put in a faith-compromising position. Every day I'd have to ask myself "o.k., do I obey God, or men?" Really? Where? Be specific. Matt. 26:52 -: "Return your sword to its place, for all those who take the sword will perish by the sword." This is telling, because at the time government authority was being used to unjustly accuse the Son of God himself. Now, we can't blame Peter for wanting to stand up and fight for Jesus. What more worthy cause was there? Jesus still said this was not right. As HiinEnkelte points out, according to the Watchtower:
"Notice that there is no command in the Scriptures against military service" (Watchtower, Aug. 1, 1898, pg. 231). This is true. Applying bible principals outlined in the entire bible helps me with my own personal decision here. "There could be nothing against our conscience in going into the army. Wherever we would go we could take the Lord with us, the Captain of our salvation, and wherever we would go we could find opportunities to serve him and his cause" (THE WATCHTOWER, April 15, 1903, pg. 120).
Was the text of this article specific as to what form of service an individual is choosing to participate in? That would be up to that individual's conscience. But it was said before, if we are willingly taking the life of another Christian in war, we are still killing one of Christ's brothers. I'm a bible person, not a Watchtower person, therefore my bible-trained-conscience would not allow me to participate in something that I know Jesus does not approve of. | |
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OdysseyMiles said:[quote] 333 said: This is true. Applying bible principals outlined in the entire bible helps me with my own personal decision here. "There could be nothing against our conscience in going into the army. Wherever we would go we could take the Lord with us, the Captain of our salvation, and wherever we would go we could find opportunities to serve him and his cause" (THE WATCHTOWER, April 15, 1903, pg. 120).
Was the text of this article specific as to what form of service an individual is choosing to participate in? That would be up to that individual's conscience. But it was said before, if we are willingly taking the life of another Christian in war, we are still killing one of Christ's brothers. I'm a bible person, not a Watchtower person, therefore my bible-trained-conscience would not allow me to participate in something that I know Jesus does not approve of. I agree with U Miles. Once again ..quoting from 1898 and 1903 articles simply shows how much we have grown as an organization. When those articles were written, there was still in use the Christmas traditions, birthday celebrations...even the use of the cross. Over the years we have continued to search the scriptures and align ourselves with what they say. Isa 2:3, 4 is more in line with our present views... as we render Caesar's things to Caesar and God's things to God. " And many peoples will certainly go and say: "Come, YOU people, and let us go up to the mountain of Jehovah, to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will instruct us about his ways, and we will walk in his paths." For out of Zion law will go forth, and the word of Jehovah out of Jerusalem. And he will certainly render judgment among the nations and set matters straight respecting many peoples. And they will have to beat their swords into plowshares and their spears into pruning shears. Nation will not lift up sword against nation, neither will they learn war anymore. We continue to grow with Jehovah's blessing. spelling edit [This message was edited Thu Aug 5 11:38:22 2004 by SensualMelody] So...how's everybody doing?  | |
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OdysseyMiles said: Matt. 26:52 -: "Return your sword to its place, for all those who take the sword will perish by the sword."
This is telling, because at the time government authority was being used to unjustly accuse the Son of God himself. Now, we can't blame Peter for wanting to stand up and fight for Jesus. What more worthy cause was there? Jesus still said this was not right. Really? Or could it be that Peter was interfering with Jesus' mission? The Son of Man must be lifted up (die). "Freedom is the freedom to say that two plus two make four. If that is granted, all else follows." | |
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333 said: OdysseyMiles said: Matt. 26:52 -: "Return your sword to its place, for all those who take the sword will perish by the sword."
This is telling, because at the time government authority was being used to unjustly accuse the Son of God himself. Now, we can't blame Peter for wanting to stand up and fight for Jesus. What more worthy cause was there? Jesus still said this was not right. Really? Or could it be that Peter was interfering with Jesus' mission? The Son of Man must be lifted up (die). Either way, Jesus clearly points out that he didn't want people hackin' up others in his name. "...all those who take to the sword will perish by the sword." | |
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333 said: OdysseyMiles said: Matt. 26:52 -: "Return your sword to its place, for all those who take the sword will perish by the sword."
This is telling, because at the time government authority was being used to unjustly accuse the Son of God himself. Now, we can't blame Peter for wanting to stand up and fight for Jesus. What more worthy cause was there? Jesus still said this was not right. Really? Or could it be that Peter was interfering with Jesus' mission? The Son of Man must be lifted up (die). Jesus could have just simply said, "Return your sword to its place." but he added, "for all those who take the sword will perish by the sword." He didnt tell Peter that for nothing. Many Christmas' ago, I went to buy a doll for my son. I reached for the last one they had, but so did another man. As I rained blows upon him, I realized there had to be another way. | |
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ekalb101 said: 333 said: Really? Or could it be that Peter was interfering with Jesus' mission? The Son of Man must be lifted up (die). Jesus could have just simply said, "Return your sword to its place." but he added, "for all those who take the sword will perish by the sword." He didnt tell Peter that for nothing. And he could have said, don't join the military and those who are in military need to get out. But I don't see that either. "Freedom is the freedom to say that two plus two make four. If that is granted, all else follows." | |
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333 said: ekalb101 said: Jesus could have just simply said, "Return your sword to its place." but he added, "for all those who take the sword will perish by the sword." He didnt tell Peter that for nothing. And he could have said, don't join the military and those who are in military need to get out. But I don't see that either. So the principal isn't clear? There are many things in the scriptures that are not spelled out for us, and we all know this. Still many principals are provided to help us deal with any current day situation. This is the point of 2 Tim. 3:16,17: "All scripture is inspired of God and beneficial for teaching, reproving, for setting things straight, for disciplining in righteousness, that the man of God may be fully competent, completely equipped for every good work." | |
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333 said: ekalb101 said: Jesus could have just simply said, "Return your sword to its place." but he added, "for all those who take the sword will perish by the sword." He didnt tell Peter that for nothing. And he could have said, don't join the military and those who are in military need to get out. But I don't see that either. And he also could have said, "Dont smoke crack." but you dont see that either. Many Christmas' ago, I went to buy a doll for my son. I reached for the last one they had, but so did another man. As I rained blows upon him, I realized there had to be another way. | |
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ekalb101 said: 333 said: And he could have said, don't join the military and those who are in military need to get out. But I don't see that either. And he also could have said, "Dont smoke crack." but you dont see that either. It is hardly the same thing. There were armies and soldiers. And both Jesus and Peter had the chance to make it clear to different Roman soldiers that they should get out of the military. "Freedom is the freedom to say that two plus two make four. If that is granted, all else follows." | |
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OdysseyMiles said: 333 said: And he could have said, don't join the military and those who are in military need to get out. But I don't see that either. So the principal isn't clear? There are many things in the scriptures that are not spelled out for us, and we all know this. Still many principals are provided to help us deal with any current day situation. This is the point of 2 Tim. 3:16,17: "All scripture is inspired of God and beneficial for teaching, reproving, for setting things straight, for disciplining in righteousness, that the man of God may be fully competent, completely equipped for every good work." Let ask your thoughts on a matter. At one time the Watchtower did not have a problem with military service. Some times after 1903, I can't say exactly but is was sometime before 1915, military service was deemed wrong. Now I have two question: (1) Where the JWs before 1903 who considered military service fine and those who were in the military truly Christians? and (2) Do JWs today, looking back on those who did, believe they were truly Christians? "Freedom is the freedom to say that two plus two make four. If that is granted, all else follows." | |
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TheOrgerFormerlyKnownAs said: zkp2003 said: That is exactly right ,it is about your relationship with God. All though there are some in Jehovahs orginization that do lead double lives, for the most part people are really trying to live there lives in accordance to Bible principles. The Bible says not to isolate ourselves, that we should gather together as to up build one another. We do need others, but God is first, we are serving him not men. I am sorry you were treated badly by witnesses. May I ask you in what way were you treated badly? isnt that more an issue about your friend and not an entire religious organization though? ive said this before and i'll say it again, people use the name of god to be assholes all the time....not just the jw's but all religion....  Power tends to corrupt and absolute power corrupts absolutely. |
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btw: this thread is way too long....*and* the discussion is going back to the same ole "im gonna prove your religion is wrong" attitude we need to avoid.....
Power tends to corrupt and absolute power corrupts absolutely. |
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333 said: At one time the Watchtower did not have a problem with military service. Some times after 1903, I can't say exactly but is was sometime before 1915, military service was deemed wrong. Now I have two question: (1) Where the JWs before 1903 who considered military service fine and those who were in the military truly Christians? and (2) Do JWs today, looking back on those who did, believe they were truly Christians?
From book "Jehovah's Witnesses-Proclaimers of God's Kingdom" When the World Went to War Around the globe the events of World War I severely tested the claims of those who professed to be Christians. It was the most ghastly war fought down to that time; nearly the entire world population was involved in one way or another. Pope Benedict XV, in spite of Vatican sympathies for the Central Powers, endeavored to maintain an appearance of neutrality. However, within each nation the clergy, Catholic and Protestant, maintained no such neutral stance. Regarding the situation in the United States, Dr. Ray Abrams, in his book Preachers Present Arms, wrote: “The churches assumed a unity of purpose hitherto unknown in religious annals. . . . The leaders lost no time in getting thoroughly organized on a war-time basis. Within twenty-four hours after the declaration of war, the Federal Council of the Churches of Christ in America laid plans for the fullest cooperation. . . . The Roman Catholic Church, organized for similar service under the National Catholic War Council, directed by fourteen archbishops and with Cardinal Gibbons as president, demonstrated an equal devotion to the cause. . . . Many of the churches went much further than they were asked. They became recruiting stations for the enlistment of troops.” What did the Bible Students do? Although they endeavored to do what they felt was pleasing to God, their position was not always one of strict neutrality. What they did was influenced by the belief, shared in common with other professed Christians, that “the higher powers” were “ordained of God,” according to the wording of the King James Version. (Rom. 13:1) Thus, in accord with a proclamation of the president of the United States, The Watch Tower urged the Bible Students to join in observing May 30, 1918, as a day of prayer and supplication in connection with the outcome of the world war. During the war years, the circumstances into which individual Bible Students were thrust varied. The way they dealt with these situations also varied. Feeling obligated to obey “the powers that be,” as they referred to the secular rulers, some went into the trenches at the front with guns and bayonets. But having in mind the scripture, “Thou shalt not kill,” they would fire their weapons into the air or try simply to knock the weapon from the hands of an opponent. (Ex. 20:13, KJ) A few, such as Remigio Cuminetti, in Italy, refused to put on a military uniform. The Italian government at that time made no allowance for anyone who for reasons of conscience would not take up arms. He stood trial five times and was confined in prisons and a mental institution, but his faith and determination remained unshaken. In England some who applied for exemption were assigned to work of national importance or to a noncombatant corps. Others, such as Pryce Hughes, adopted a position of strict neutrality, regardless of the consequences to them personally. At least at that point, the overall record of the Bible Students was not quite like that of the early Christians described in The Rise of Christianity, by E. W. Barnes, who reported: “A careful review of all the information available goes to show that, until the time of Marcus Aurelius [Roman emperor from 161 to 180 C.E.], no Christian became a soldier; and no soldier, after becoming a Christian, remained in military service.” Many Christmas' ago, I went to buy a doll for my son. I reached for the last one they had, but so did another man. As I rained blows upon him, I realized there had to be another way. | |
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