I understand the idea behind "not being part of this world" In other words, spiritual matters and their consequence are of high import compared to worldly affairs. However, no matter how much you want to believe you are not of this world. You are. It's like saying that you don't live in America because you were born in another country. You are on this physical planet. Your existence is not inconsequential. Like I said, feel free to live your life in whatever moral fashion you choose, however acknowledge the real fact that you are of this world. You got a body. You walk on earth. Like it or not, this isn't the spiritual realm. I'm not knocking the spiritual, just pointing out the fact that you are a worldly creature. If you weren't you'd be living in the spiritual world wouldn't you?

yet Jesus himself was no part of this world.

in a prayer to his heavenly Father he said at john 17:15, 16 "I request you, not to take them out of this world, but to watch over them because of the wicked one. They are no part of the world, just as i am no part of the world."

living on this earth and being no part of the world are two different things, and entirely possible.

Jesus is a completely different case. Nobody but Christ is Christ. I understand the differentiation but the point still stands that every human being is of this world. We are not entirely spiritual creatures, we have a body. Until we shed that shell, and only then can people claim they are not of this world.

Jesus is a completely different case. Nobody but Christ is Christ. I understand the differentiation but the point still stands that every human being is of this world. We are not entirely spiritual creatures, we have a body. Until we shed that shell, and only then can people claim they are not of this world.

Jesus was saying here that he was no part of this world, just like he said earlier in John 15 that his followers are no part of this world. if you want to be a christian and a follower of Jesus Christ, you have to follow ALL his teachings, and that means having no part in the politics of this world, like he didn't, and no part in the false religious practices of this world, like he didn't, etc.

In my opinion, this is one of the biggest crimes. Anyone who fails to pariticipate in the political process has no right to complain about anything at all. If you aren't willing to affect this world by participating in it, you really have no reason to complain about how bad it is. To me, this thinking is just wrong.

it may seem "wrong" to us humans, but the fact remains that this was Jesus thinking, and as Jesus was a perfect reflection of his heavenly Father, we can rest assured that this is God's way of thinking as well. now, the question remains, whose thinking do we want to imitate? God's? or someone else's? i choose to imitate Jesus' thinking and the thinking of my heavenly Father, and remain separate from this world.

You are a part of this world. You're here. Deal with it.

People don't hate Christians because they believe in Christ, they hate them because they misrepresent his name.

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[This message was edited Tue Jul 13 14:57:11 2004 by SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy]

Jesus was saying here that he was no part of this world, just like he said earlier in John 15 that his followers are no part of this world. if you want to be a christian and a follower of Jesus Christ, you have to follow ALL his teachings, and that means having no part in the politics of this world, like he didn't, and no part in the false religious practices of this world, like he didn't, etc.

In my opinion, this is one of the biggest crimes. Anyone who fails to pariticipate in the political process has no right to complain about anything at all. If you aren't willing to affect this world by participating in it, you really have no reason to complain about how bad it is. To me, this thinking is just wrong.

Apparently JWs can vote now. It's not forbidden any longer like it was 10 - 15 years ago. It is now a "matter of conscience." Take a look at http://www.jwfiles.com/vote.htm

Too bad so many people had to die needlessly before this "new light" on the voting matter. Read this story: http://www.jwfiles.com/malawi.htm

Don't worry, in 50 - 100 years JWs will be just like Christendom. "New light" is coming and they will do away with such things as the prohibition on blood transfusions, disfellowshipping, celebrating holidays, etc... Mark my words.

David

"In 50 - 100 years, JWs will be considerd like the Mormons are today."

Questions From Readers

How do Jehovah’s Witnesses view voting?

There are clear principles set out in the Bible that enable servants of God to take a proper view of this matter. However, there appears to be no principle against the practice of voting itself. For example, there is no reason why a board of directors should not take a vote in order to arrive at decisions affecting their corporation. Congregations of Jehovah’s Witnesses often make decisions about meeting times and the use of congregation funds by voting with a show of hands.

What, though, of voting in political elections? Of course, in some democratic lands, as many as 50 percent of the population do not turn out to vote on election day. As for Jehovah’s Witnesses, they do not interfere with the right of others to vote; neither do they in any way campaign against political elections. They respect and cooperate with the authorities who are duly elected in such elections. (Romans 13:1-7) As to whether they will personally vote for someone running in an election, each one of Jehovah’s Witnesses makes a decision based on his Bible-trained conscience and an understanding of his responsibility to God and to the State. (Matthew 22:21; 1 Peter 3:16) In making this personal decision, the Witnesses consider a number of factors.

First, Jesus Christ said of his followers: “They are no part of the world, just as I am no part of the world.” (John 17:14) Jehovah’s Witnesses take this principle seriously. Being “no part of the world,” they are neutral in the political affairs of the world.—John 18:36.

Second, the apostle Paul referred to himself as an “ambassador” representing Christ to the people of his day. (Ephesians 6:20; 2 Corinthians 5:20) Jehovah’s Witnesses believe that Christ Jesus is now the enthroned King of God’s heavenly Kingdom, and they, like ambassadors, must announce this to the nations. (Matthew 24:14; Revelation 11:15) Ambassadors are expected to be neutral and not to interfere in the internal affairs of the countries to which they are sent. As representatives of God’s heavenly Kingdom, Jehovah’s Witnesses feel a similar obligation not to interfere in the politics of the countries where they reside.

A third factor to consider is that those who have a part in voting a person into office may become responsible for what he does. (Compare 1 Timothy 5:22, The New English Bible.) Christians have to consider carefully whether they want to shoulder that responsibility.

Fourth, Jehovah’s Witnesses greatly value their Christian unity. (Colossians 3:14) When religions get involved in politics, the result is often division among their members. In imitation of Jesus Christ, Jehovah’s Witnesses avoid becoming involved in politics and thus maintain their Christian unity.—Matthew 12:25; John 6:15; 18:36, 37.

Fifth and finally, their keeping out of politics gives Jehovah’s Witnesses freeness of speech to approach people of all political persuasions with the important message of the Kingdom.—Hebrews 10:35.

In view of the Scriptural principles outlined above, in many lands Jehovah’s Witnesses make a personal decision not to vote in political elections, and their freedom to make that decision is supported by the law of the land. What, though, if the law requires citizens to vote? In such a case, each Witness is responsible to make a conscientious, Bible-based decision about how to handle the situation. If someone decides to go to the polling booth, that is his decision. What he does in the polling booth is between him and his Creator.

The November 15, 1950, issue of The Watchtower, on pages 445 and 446, said: “Where Caesar makes it compulsory for citizens to vote . . . [Witnesses] can go to the polls and enter the voting booths. It is here that they are called upon to mark the ballot or write in what they stand for (on a sidenote, i've heard of some actually writing in that they vote for jesus, or their sister, or something like that. no law saying they have to vote for the candidates . . .) The voters do what they will with their ballots. So here in the presence of God is where his witnesses must act in harmony with his commandments and in accordance with their faith. It is not our responsibility to instruct them what to do with the ballot.”

What if a Christian woman’s unbelieving husband insists that she present herself to vote? Well, she is subject to her husband, just as Christians are subject to the superior authorities. (Ephesians 5:22; 1 Peter 2:13-17) If she obeys her husband and goes to the polling booth, that is her personal decision. No one should criticize her.—Compare Romans 14:4.

What of a country where voting is not mandated by law but feelings run high against those who do not go to the voting booth—perhaps they are exposed to physical danger? Or what if individuals, while not legally obliged to vote, are severely penalized in some way if they do not go to the polling booth? In these and similar situations, a Christian has to make his own decision. “Each one will carry his own load.”—Galatians 6:5.

There may be people who are stumbled when they observe that during an election in their country, some Witnesses of Jehovah go to the polling booth and others do not. They may say, ‘Jehovah’s Witnesses are not consistent.’ People should recognize, though, that in matters of individual conscience such as this, each Christian has to make his own decision before Jehovah God.—Romans 14:12.

Whatever personal decisions Jehovah’s Witnesses make in the face of different situations, they take care to preserve their Christian neutrality and freeness of speech. In all things, they rely on Jehovah God to strengthen them, give them wisdom, and help them avoid compromising their faith in any way. Thus they show confidence in the words of the psalmist: “You are my crag and my stronghold; and for the sake of your name you will lead me and conduct me.”—Psalm 31:3.

um, yeah, i think i already told you in another thread that it was taken out of context. why do you continue to bring up lies?

this is the full article published. if you read from that link, they conveniently highlight the portion they want you to read and ignore the surrounding sentences. when you read the whole thing, it is more understandable. here, see for yourself. (i bolded or italicized the parts that truly explain what a true christians stand is, and underlined the portions that were highlighted in the link.)



i remember reading this when it came out, and i didn't get the impression at all that the society was now saying it was ok to vote.

hope this helps.

here it is, i found it in the other thread.

Yes I read that before and even with your highlighting I still read voting as being a "conscience matter."

Let me ask you simply,

Is voting the same as taking a blood transfusion? If not, why not?

BTW, I'm still very curious to know what other JWs think about whether it's OK or not to vote.

David

Show me a true Christian and I'll eat my hat. All of us fall short and if we can accept that, we'll get along much better.

participating in politics and paying your taxes are two very different things. just because jesus obeyed the laws of the land didn't mean he was involving himself in politics. he avoided it, even running away from a crowd who wanted to make him king.

THAT MORE ABOUT PROPHESY

THAN ABOUT ROLE IN GOVERNMENT