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Reply #210 posted 01/01/18 3:47pm

Ugot2shakesumt
hin

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For me, the force awakens was just such bad film making direction and story wise, that the Last Jedi will forever be the thing that saved Star Wars.
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Reply #211 posted 01/02/18 10:21am

namepeace

EmmaMcG said:

seems that no matter what they do with Star Wars, people will always complain.


And there it t-i-s. Being a SW geek myself, I think the devoted fans have asserted ownership over this franchise from the minute it blew our minds 40 years ago (or 30, 25, etc.). TLJ put its finger on the real issue: can the fanboys and fangirls who have kept this phenomenon alive for 2 generations truly turn the page?

Thematically and, sadly, literally, the original Big Three can't stick around forever in the story. One of the three famously didn't want to.


But we fans, as a whole, have trouble accepting changes to the saga we love, and in some ways, the saga we built in our own minds.

There isn't a single movie in this saga that hasn't had plot holes, or defied the laws of science or common sense. We go to these movies with the saga we have, not the saga we wish we had. And the results since 2015 have overall been really good.

[Edited 1/2/18 10:52am]

Good night, sweet Prince | 7 June 1958 - 21 April 2016

Props will be withheld until the showing and proving has commenced. -- Aaron McGruder
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Reply #212 posted 01/02/18 10:27am

namepeace

babynoz said:

If Snoke isn't a Sith then how could he train Kylo to be an effective Dark Lord? Would he even be powerful enough? eek


I'm not fully convinced "Snoke"'s storyline is done.

There's still the Plagueis angle to play.

How did such a powerful Dark Side master just so happen to rise and seize power in the wake of Sidious' death? The Galaxy simply wasn't big enough for "Snoke" and Sidious. Perhaps Snoke IS Plagueis, and bid his time until Sidious' death to resurface, somehow.

There's the distinct possibility that Rey and Ben have to deal with him again. Or the rest of the Knights of Ren, organized by Hux to wage a coup against Ben.

Perhaps, like Rey's parents, Snoke is a red herring. But I'm not quite there yet.

Good night, sweet Prince | 7 June 1958 - 21 April 2016

Props will be withheld until the showing and proving has commenced. -- Aaron McGruder
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Reply #213 posted 01/03/18 8:50am

Neversin

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namepeace said:

EmmaMcG said:

seems that no matter what they do with Star Wars, people will always complain.


And there it t-i-s. Being a SW geek myself, I think the devoted fans have asserted ownership over this franchise from the minute it blew our minds 40 years ago (or 30, 25, etc.). TLJ put its finger on the real issue: can the fanboys and fangirls who have kept this phenomenon alive for 2 generations truly turn the page?

Thematically and, sadly, literally, the original Big Three can't stick around forever in the story. One of the three famously didn't want to.


But we fans, as a whole, have trouble accepting changes to the saga we love, and in some ways, the saga we built in our own minds.

There isn't a single movie in this saga that hasn't had plot holes, or defied the laws of science or common sense. We go to these movies with the saga we have, not the saga we wish we had. And the results since 2015 have overall been really good.

[Edited 1/2/18 10:52am]


It's not about changes, every sane minded fan would accept changes to further a story...
This is more about lazily written and simply uninteresting (new) characters next to uninteresting plot points just to give them something to do...
Also the disrespectful way older characters are written off, just to get rid of them so these new underwritten characters can take center spot, is just plain stupid and shows a lack of interest in or knowledge of these characters by the director/Kathleen Kennedy and Disney... It's painfully obvious these people don't like or care about "Star Wars" other than the money it makes...
I understand this whole "Star Wars" thing is a ploy to sell cheaply made toys but still, people were invested in these characters and their adventures... Now, not so much...
It's cool that there are some people who like this shit but they could have at least taken some effort in respectfully send off the characters that created the brand for the people who made the brand...

Neversin.

O(+>NIИ<+)O

“Is man merely a mistake of God's? Or God merely a mistake of man's?”

- Friedrich Wilhelm Nietzsche
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Reply #214 posted 01/03/18 9:30am

2045RadicalMat
tZ

Neversin said:

namepeace said:


And there it t-i-s. Being a SW geek myself, I think the devoted fans have asserted ownership over this franchise from the minute it blew our minds 40 years ago (or 30, 25, etc.). TLJ put its finger on the real issue: can the fanboys and fangirls who have kept this phenomenon alive for 2 generations truly turn the page?

Thematically and, sadly, literally, the original Big Three can't stick around forever in the story. One of the three famously didn't want to.


But we fans, as a whole, have trouble accepting changes to the saga we love, and in some ways, the saga we built in our own minds.

There isn't a single movie in this saga that hasn't had plot holes, or defied the laws of science or common sense. We go to these movies with the saga we have, not the saga we wish we had. And the results since 2015 have overall been really good.

[Edited 1/2/18 10:52am]


It's not about changes, every sane minded fan would accept changes to further a story...
This is more about lazily written and simply uninteresting (new) characters next to uninteresting plot points just to give them something to do...
Also the disrespectful way older characters are written off, just to get rid of them so these new underwritten characters can take center spot, is just plain stupid and shows a lack of interest in or knowledge of these characters by the director/Kathleen Kennedy and Disney... It's painfully obvious these people don't like or care about "Star Wars" other than the money it makes...
I understand this whole "Star Wars" thing is a ploy to sell cheaply made toys but still, people were invested in these characters and their adventures... Now, not so much...
It's cool that there are some people who like this shit but they could have at least taken some effort in respectfully send off the characters that created the brand for the people who made the brand...

Neversin.

AMEN!!

sherman-hemsley-o.gif

[Edited 1/3/18 9:31am]

"Damn Dolores, pick another subject, please...introduce the carpet to something other than your knees...."
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Reply #215 posted 01/04/18 9:44am

namepeace

Neversin said:

namepeace said:


And there it t-i-s. Being a SW geek myself, I think the devoted fans have asserted ownership over this franchise from the minute it blew our minds 40 years ago (or 30, 25, etc.). TLJ put its finger on the real issue: can the fanboys and fangirls who have kept this phenomenon alive for 2 generations truly turn the page?

Thematically and, sadly, literally, the original Big Three can't stick around forever in the story. One of the three famously didn't want to.


But we fans, as a whole, have trouble accepting changes to the saga we love, and in some ways, the saga we built in our own minds.

There isn't a single movie in this saga that hasn't had plot holes, or defied the laws of science or common sense. We go to these movies with the saga we have, not the saga we wish we had. And the results since 2015 have overall been really good.

[Edited 1/2/18 10:52am]


It's not about changes, every sane minded fan would accept changes to further a story... This is more about lazily written and simply uninteresting (new) characters next to uninteresting plot points just to give them something to do...


Also the disrespectful way older characters are written off, just to get rid of them so these new underwritten characters can take center spot, is just plain stupid and shows a lack of interest in or knowledge of these characters by the director/Kathleen Kennedy and Disney... It's painfully obvious these people don't like or care about "Star Wars" other than the money it makes...


I understand this whole "Star Wars" thing is a ploy to sell cheaply made toys but
still, people were invested in these characters and their adventures... Now, not so much...

It's cool that there are some people who like this shit but they could have at least taken some effort in respectfully send off the characters that created the brand for the people who made the brand...

Neversin.


You're assuming that we SW geeks are sane. lol

The new movies have clear flaws. I think everyone would agree that Act II drags. And you have a point about the new characters.

The most interesting characters in the OT were Darth Vader and Han Solo -- a fearsome, mysterious, (and quite layered) villain and a charismatic, funny, reckless scoundrel. The new films don't really have characters we're invested in. They're trying to make Poe Dameron the Solo of the NT but they really haven't given him much to do. I think Team Disney is banking on the SW Universe to sell itself with a more limited Big Three presence.

This idea that Big Three were underwritten isn't completely true. As for Han Solo, you know as I do that Harrison Ford probably wasn't coming back unless he was getting killed off in VII, since he actually lobbied for that to happen in VI. Ford gave us vintage Solo, he was central to moving the movie forward, and he was the heart of VII.

As for Leia, we clearly can't blame Disney for scrambling after the death of Carrie Fisher to build a decent narrative for VIII and IX.

As for Luke, well, somebody had to fulfill the Old Man role, and he did it really well. His NOT being in VII was a plot point that we can argue about. But he was really the focal point of VIII. We got a glimpse into his backstory after the Empire fell, and he literally went out in a blaze of glory at the end of the damn thing.

How would you have sent them off? (I'm genuinely asking.)

Team Disney hasn't been perfect, but outside of making money and selling merchandise, which is their job, they were never going to be able to win completely. We were always going to find something to complain about. But seeing that this is a space opera, and not the Orestia, they've generally done well.

Good night, sweet Prince | 7 June 1958 - 21 April 2016

Props will be withheld until the showing and proving has commenced. -- Aaron McGruder
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Reply #216 posted 01/04/18 5:44pm

OnlyNDaUsa

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It is the highest grossing film of the year--something all the other live-action films did except for AotC which ended at #3.

It also did better than "Rogue One" and is doing about 60% of what TFA did. (so at this pace it will end up at about $666 Million.)

It is ranked #6 adjusted for inflation of the 9 Star Wars movies. #2 not-adjusted.

Solo: a Star Wars Story may be in trouble. After its directors were fired and Ron Howard was brought in to rescue the film there are still rumors that Disney and Lucasfilm are bracing for a bomb!

It will face stiff competition from Avengers, Jurassic Park, and Incredibles II.

Of the movies I know of coming out next year, I doubt I will see more than 3: Solo, The Meg, and maybe Deadpool!

"I was raped by the Arkansas AG who then becomes Governor & President..." Juanita Broaddrick
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Reply #217 posted 01/05/18 1:42am

Neversin

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namepeace said:

Neversin said:


It's not about changes, every sane minded fan would accept changes to further a story... This is more about lazily written and simply uninteresting (new) characters next to uninteresting plot points just to give them something to do...


Also the disrespectful way older characters are written off, just to get rid of them so these new underwritten characters can take center spot, is just plain stupid and shows a lack of interest in or knowledge of these characters by the director/Kathleen Kennedy and Disney... It's painfully obvious these people don't like or care about "Star Wars" other than the money it makes...


I understand this whole "Star Wars" thing is a ploy to sell cheaply made toys but
still, people were invested in these characters and their adventures... Now, not so much...

It's cool that there are some people who like this shit but they could have at least taken some effort in respectfully send off the characters that created the brand for the people who made the brand...

Neversin.


You're assuming that we SW geeks are sane. lol

The new movies have clear flaws. I think everyone would agree that Act II drags. And you have a point about the new characters.

The most interesting characters in the OT were Darth Vader and Han Solo -- a fearsome, mysterious, (and quite layered) villain and a charismatic, funny, reckless scoundrel. The new films don't really have characters we're invested in. They're trying to make Poe Dameron the Solo of the NT but they really haven't given him much to do. I think Team Disney is banking on the SW Universe to sell itself with a more limited Big Three presence.

This idea that Big Three were underwritten isn't completely true. As for Han Solo, you know as I do that Harrison Ford probably wasn't coming back unless he was getting killed off in VII, since he actually lobbied for that to happen in VI. Ford gave us vintage Solo, he was central to moving the movie forward, and he was the heart of VII.

As for Leia, we clearly can't blame Disney for scrambling after the death of Carrie Fisher to build a decent narrative for VIII and IX.

As for Luke, well, somebody had to fulfill the Old Man role, and he did it really well. His NOT being in VII was a plot point that we can argue about. But he was really the focal point of VIII. We got a glimpse into his backstory after the Empire fell, and he literally went out in a blaze of glory at the end of the damn thing.

How would you have sent them off? (I'm genuinely asking.)

Team Disney hasn't been perfect, but outside of making money and selling merchandise, which is their job, they were never going to be able to win completely. We were always going to find something to complain about. But seeing that this is a space opera, and not the Orestia, they've generally done well.


Han's death was cool with me simply because it showed what kind of potential the character Kylo Ren had... I liked that...
In TLJ Leia should have had Holdo's scene, that would have made it impactful and strong...
I understand they didn't know Fisher was going to die but then they should have used Ackbar for that scene... But they only offed him in simple fashion for diversity sake (the need for some purple haired woman character to be heroic because that's the hip thing now just to get women in theater seats...)
Luke shouldn't have been some pussy did-nothing-for-30-years hermit who got scared by his kid nephew... This guy refused to fight Vader for fucks sake and tried to turn him... FUCKING VADER!
This was not "Luke Skywalker"... He should have faced Ren, and maybe even lost to him to show how powerful this new guy is, and the rest of the movie train Rey as a new Force beacon...
Sure, cliche... But it's Star Wars not "Othello"...

Neversin.

[Edited 1/5/18 2:14am]

O(+>NIИ<+)O

“Is man merely a mistake of God's? Or God merely a mistake of man's?”

- Friedrich Wilhelm Nietzsche
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Reply #218 posted 01/05/18 9:22am

namepeace

Neversin said:




Han's death was cool with me simply because it showed what kind of potential the character Kylo Ren had... I liked that...

So did I, which was one of the reasons I thought Han tied VII together.

In TLJ Leia should have had Holdo's scene, that would have made it impactful and strong...

That was a curious choice for me as well. I was surprised Leia made it through. Her sendoff is going to be anticlimatic.

I understand they didn't know Fisher was going to die but then they should have used Ackbar for that scene... But they only offed him in simple fashion for diversity sake (the need for some purple haired woman character to be heroic because that's the hip thing now just to get women in theater seats...)

Ackbar was a fan service device. Honestly, most moviegoers likely didn't care about him.

Luke shouldn't have been some pussy did-nothing-for-30-years hermit who got scared by his kid nephew... This guy refused to fight Vader for fucks sake and tried to turn him... FUCKING VADER!
This was not "Luke Skywalker"... He should have faced Ren, and maybe even lost to him to show how powerful this new guy is, and the rest of the movie train Rey as a new Force beacon...

Based on the trailer, I was thinking Luke would fight and fall to Snoke to save Rey, and hopefully prod Ben back to the light.

And it's not fair to say Luke "did-nothing-for-30-years." He tried to restore the freaking Jedi Order! In the old EU, he scoured the galaxy looking for candidates, so that probably took him years to find the kids, and years more to train them. That's why he took off . . . he'd worked years, maybe decades, to get to that point and he destroyed it in a flash of impulse (the Anakin in him). Perhaps THAT could have been the focal point of the new trilogy, which would have been cool.

Sure, cliche... But it's Star Wars not "Othello"...

Indeed.

Good night, sweet Prince | 7 June 1958 - 21 April 2016

Props will be withheld until the showing and proving has commenced. -- Aaron McGruder
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Reply #219 posted 01/07/18 2:43am

Neversin

avatar

namepeace said:

Neversin said:


Han's death was cool with me simply because it showed what kind of potential the character Kylo Ren had... I liked that...

So did I, which was one of the reasons I thought Han tied VII together.

In TLJ Leia should have had Holdo's scene, that would have made it impactful and strong...

That was a curious choice for me as well. I was surprised Leia made it through. Her sendoff is going to be anticlimatic.

I understand they didn't know Fisher was going to die but then they should have used Ackbar for that scene... But they only offed him in simple fashion for diversity sake (the need for some purple haired woman character to be heroic because that's the hip thing now just to get women in theater seats...)

Ackbar was a fan service device. Honestly, most moviegoers likely didn't care about him.

Luke shouldn't have been some pussy did-nothing-for-30-years hermit who got scared by his kid nephew... This guy refused to fight Vader for fucks sake and tried to turn him... FUCKING VADER!
This was not "Luke Skywalker"... He should have faced Ren, and maybe even lost to him to show how powerful this new guy is, and the rest of the movie train Rey as a new Force beacon...

Based on the trailer, I was thinking Luke would fight and fall to Snoke to save Rey, and hopefully prod Ben back to the light.

And it's not fair to say Luke "did-nothing-for-30-years." He tried to restore the freaking Jedi Order! In the old EU, he scoured the galaxy looking for candidates, so that probably took him years to find the kids, and years more to train them. That's why he took off . . . he'd worked years, maybe decades, to get to that point and he destroyed it in a flash of impulse (the Anakin in him). Perhaps THAT could have been the focal point of the new trilogy, which would have been cool.

Sure, cliche... But it's Star Wars not "Othello"...

Indeed.


Sadly the old EU is non canon as per pedo Disney fucknecks...
In this new movie it just seems he was trying to setup an academy to train Ben and maybe some others and then went all pussy...

Neversin.

O(+>NIИ<+)O

“Is man merely a mistake of God's? Or God merely a mistake of man's?”

- Friedrich Wilhelm Nietzsche
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Reply #220 posted 01/08/18 11:41am

2freaky4church
1

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Is the force still with us?

DJ is da man
"2freaky is very down." 2Elijah.
"2freaky convinced me to join Antifa: OnlyNDA
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Reply #221 posted 01/08/18 11:56am

namepeace

Neversin said:

namepeace said:


Sadly the old EU is non canon . . .
In this new movie it just seems he was trying to setup an academy to train Ben and maybe some others and then went all pussy...

Neversin.


They ripped the Ben/Ren storyline straight from the EU.


Good night, sweet Prince | 7 June 1958 - 21 April 2016

Props will be withheld until the showing and proving has commenced. -- Aaron McGruder
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Reply #222 posted 01/09/18 3:50am

Neversin

avatar

namepeace said:

Neversin said:


Sadly the old EU is non canon . . .
In this new movie it just seems he was trying to setup an academy to train Ben and maybe some others and then went all pussy...

Neversin.


They ripped the Ben/Ren storyline straight from the EU.



Without Jacen and Jaina it doesn't even come close...
Ben being Leia and Han's son with, seemingly, no siblings...
Luke without wife and kid...
Disney just cherry picked nonsense and made it even worse...

Neversin.

O(+>NIИ<+)O

“Is man merely a mistake of God's? Or God merely a mistake of man's?”

- Friedrich Wilhelm Nietzsche
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Reply #223 posted 01/11/18 3:37pm

uPtoWnNY

The Case Against The Jedi - YouTube

Excellent video and it's right on the money. If Anakin had received the emotional support he desperately needed, he might not have become Vader.

[Edited 1/11/18 15:45pm]

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Reply #224 posted 01/15/18 8:56am

namepeace

uPtoWnNY said:

The Case Against The Jedi - YouTube

Excellent video and it's right on the money. If Anakin had received the emotional support he desperately needed, he might not have become Vader.

[Edited 1/11/18 15:45pm]


Sidious wasn't that far off.

"The Sith and the Jedi, are similar in almost every way. Including their quest for greater power."

They feared Anakin's power, they feared Palpatine, they feared the Senate discovering that their ability to use the Force had been diminished. It drove all their decisions accordingly, and Sidious played them like an accordion.

Good night, sweet Prince | 7 June 1958 - 21 April 2016

Props will be withheld until the showing and proving has commenced. -- Aaron McGruder
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Reply #225 posted 01/16/18 3:45pm

uPtoWnNY

namepeace said:

uPtoWnNY said:

The Case Against The Jedi - YouTube

Excellent video and it's right on the money. If Anakin had received the emotional support he desperately needed, he might not have become Vader.

[Edited 1/11/18 15:45pm]


Sidious wasn't that far off.

"The Sith and the Jedi, are similar in almost every way. Including their quest for greater power."

They feared Anakin's power, they feared Palpatine, they feared the Senate discovering that their ability to use the Force had been diminished. It drove all their decisions accordingly, and Sidious played them like an accordion.

Two sides of the same coin.

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