Bengals fever ison.

kpowers said:

namepeace said:

Everybody will be pulling against New England I bet.

But Brandon Marhsall had it right. It's the fault of the other 31 teams that the Pats have gone on such a run.

Especially the teams in the AFC (looking at you, Six-Burgh), and

ESPECIALLY ESPECIALLY the teams in the AFC East, who've barely put up a real fight in the division for a decade or more.

Well make that 30 teams, Giants did their part beating the Patriots twice. That's why I think the Steelers should hire Tom Coughlin. Coughlin also knows how to beat the Steelers as head coach of the Jaguars and twice this year with Coughlin as Executive Vice President of Football Operations for the Jaguars. Hell fire Tomlin (he can't beat Belichek) and hire Coughlin as head coach. I think if Cowher was still there they would have won a few games against the Patriots.

[Edited 1/29/18 17:38pm]

True. Arguably, the team most responsible for the Pats dominance is the Colts. IND had some regular season juggernauts with HOFers all over the offense that either collapsed against San Diego in the divisional or the Pats in the title game.

[Edited 1/30/18 10:43am]

kpowers said:

phunkdaddy said:

To me that's the biggest misconception that most Tomlin haters have is that Bill Cowher somehow was a superior coach. Bill Cowher lost 4 AFC Championship games at home in which 2 were to the Patriots and he punked out on a 4th and 2 at the goal line in the 4th qtr that could have cut the lead to 7 but instead he elected to kick a fg and cut it to 11 in the 2005 AFC championship game. - Coughlin also got the best of Cowher during the old AFC Central days so that excuse don't fly either. Then I hear fans say Tomlin won his Super Bowl with Cowher's players. WTF? Cowher went 8-8 his last year with the team. I don't care if fans criticize Tomlin for coaching mistakes but it irks me when they act as though Cowher was somehow superior.

[Edited 1/29/18 22:35pm]

Guess I'm gonna irk you then. Cowher had Kordell (who choked big time in the big games). Still think Cowher would have more success than Tomlin if Cowher would have stuck around. I'll say it again, if Cowher was still there they would have won a few games against the Patriots.

I really liked Cowher, but that's a bit of wishful thinking based on his record.

Before the Pats run, he had some bad losses at home in the playoffs to teams like the Chargers and Broncos.

The best team he had, the 15-1 team in 2005, led by a rookie Ben, lost to the Pats at home in the conference title game.

Heck, his team was blown out by the Parcells-led Pats in 1997 on their way to the Super Bowl.

namepeace said:

kpowers said:

Well make that 30 teams, Giants did their part beating the Patriots twice. That's why I think the Steelers should hire Tom Coughlin. Coughlin also knows how to beat the Steelers as head coach of the Jaguars and twice this year with Coughlin as Executive Vice President of Football Operations for the Jaguars. Hell fire Tomlin (he can't beat Belichek) and hire Coughlin as head coach. I think if Cowher was still there they would have won a few games against the Patriots.

[Edited 1/29/18 17:38pm]

True. Arguably, the team most responsible is the Colts. IND had some regular season juggernauts with HOFers all over the offense that either collapsed against San Diego in the divisional or the Pats in the title game.

Let's not forget the Ravens also beat the Patriots in the playoffs

kpowers said:

namepeace said:

True. Arguably, the team most responsible is the Colts. IND had some regular season juggernauts with HOFers all over the offense that either collapsed against San Diego in the divisional or the Pats in the title game.

Let's not forget the Ravens also beat the Patriots in the playoffs

True, but I misspoke.

What I meant to say the team most responsible for the Pats' dominance is arguably the Colts, who were set up to win more than 1 Lombardi in Manning's prime but faltered against the Pats or before they even got to Pats.

The Ravens lacked the offensive firepower but still managed to beat the Pats, and should have beaten them in Foxboro in one of the conference championships as well.

namepeace said:

kpowers said:

Guess I'm gonna irk you then. Cowher had Kordell (who choked big time in the big games). Still think Cowher would have more success than Tomlin if Cowher would have stuck around. I'll say it again, if Cowher was still there they would have won a few games against the Patriots.

I really liked Cowher, but that's a bit of wishful thinking based on his record.

Before the Pats run, he had some bad losses at home in the playoffs to teams like the Chargers and Broncos.

The best team he had, the 15-1 team in 2005, led by a rookie Ben, lost to the Pats at home in the conference title game.

Heck, his team was blown out by the Parcells-led Pats in 1997 on their way to the Super Bowl.

Well it's one of those things we will never know. Let's face it Cowher had Kordell in that Bronco game and Kordell is no Ben . Kordell (big time choker) was also the QB (or was it Mike Tomczak, also a bad QB, it's been awhile) in that Parcells-led Pats in 1997. Maybe if they kept Neil O'Donell they made had different results. Steelers were not gonna win Super Bowl games with Kordell. Kordell was good as slash and was no starter. Yes Steelers lost to the Chargers but did take his team to the Super bowl the next year. Also yes they lost in 2005 to the Pats at home in the conference title game but once again Cowher took them to the Superbowl the next year and beat the Seahawks. Would of love to see Cowher and Ben together longer than just what 2 seasons together. I do believe they would have gone to more Superbowls together. Sorry Phunkdaddy but that was Cowhers team when they beat the Cardinals.

[Edited 1/30/18 11:20am]

namepeace said:

kpowers said:

Let's not forget the Ravens also beat the Patriots in the playoffs

True, but I misspoke.

What I meant to say the team most responsible for the Pats' dominance is arguably the Colts, who were set up to win more than 1 Lombardi in Manning's prime but faltered against the Pats or before they even got to Pats.

The Ravens lacked the offensive firepower but still managed to beat the Pats, and should have beaten them in Foxboro in one of the conference championships as well.

Yup Brady has a hard time against those Manning brothers

kpowers said:

namepeace said:

True, but I misspoke.

What I meant to say the team most responsible for the Pats' dominance is arguably the Colts, who were set up to win more than 1 Lombardi in Manning's prime but faltered against the Pats or before they even got to Pats.

The Ravens lacked the offensive firepower but still managed to beat the Pats, and should have beaten them in Foxboro in one of the conference championships as well.

Yup Brady has a hard time against those Manning brothers

The Mannings are 5-2 against Brady in conference title or Super Bowl games. Incredible.

kpowers said:

namepeace said:

I really liked Cowher, but that's a bit of wishful thinking based on his record.

Before the Pats run, he had some bad losses at home in the playoffs to teams like the Chargers and Broncos.

The best team he had, the 15-1 team in 2005, led by a rookie Ben, lost to the Pats at home in the conference title game.

Heck, his team was blown out by the Parcells-led Pats in 1997 on their way to the Super Bowl.

Well it's one of those things we will never know. Let's face it Cowher had Kordell in that Bronco game and Kordell is no Ben . Kordell (big time choker) was also the QB (or was it Mike Tomczak, also a bad QB, it's been awhile) in that Parcells-led Pats in 1997. Maybe if they kept Neil O'Donell they made had different results. Steelers were not gonna win Super Bowl games with Kordell. Kordell was good as slash and was no starter. Yes Steelers lost to the Chargers but did take his team to the Super bowl the next year. Also yes they lost in 2005 to the Pats at home in the conference title game but once again Cowher took them to the Superbowl the next year and beat the Seahawks. Would of love to see Cowher and Ben together longer than just what 2 seasons together. I do believe they would have gone to more Superbowls together. Sorry Phunkdaddy but that was Cowhers team when they beat the Cardinals.

[Edited 1/30/18 11:20am]

O'Donnell threw those picks in SB XXX, and Tommy Maddox, who made a playoff run with them one year. You're right that it would have been interesting to see what he'd have done with a true franchise QB.

But overall he had a losing record against Brady and Belichick. Given that and the other bad playoff losses his teams sustained before the Pats' Dynasty, I find it difficult to believe that the Steelers would have fared any better against the Pats if he'd been on the sidelines instead of Tomlin.

namepeace said:

kpowers said:

Well it's one of those things we will never know. Let's face it Cowher had Kordell in that Bronco game and Kordell is no Ben . Kordell (big time choker) was also the QB (or was it Mike Tomczak, also a bad QB, it's been awhile) in that Parcells-led Pats in 1997. Maybe if they kept Neil O'Donell they made had different results. Steelers were not gonna win Super Bowl games with Kordell. Kordell was good as slash and was no starter. Yes Steelers lost to the Chargers but did take his team to the Super bowl the next year. Also yes they lost in 2005 to the Pats at home in the conference title game but once again Cowher took them to the Superbowl the next year and beat the Seahawks. Would of love to see Cowher and Ben together longer than just what 2 seasons together. I do believe they would have gone to more Superbowls together. Sorry Phunkdaddy but that was Cowhers team when they beat the Cardinals.

[Edited 1/30/18 11:20am]

O'Donnell threw those picks in SB XXX, and Tommy Maddox, who made a playoff run with them one year. You're right that it would have been interesting to see what he'd have done with a true franchise QB.

But overall he had a losing record against Brady and Belichick. Given that and the other bad playoff losses his teams sustained before the Pats' Dynasty, I find it difficult to believe that the Steelers would have fared any better against the Pats if he'd been on the sidelines instead of Tomlin.

EXACTLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! That's why I would have love to have Cowher and Ben together longer. I'm not saying they would dominate the Patriots but I think they would have won a few games against the Patriots and not be 0-what ever. Tomlin couldn't beat Belichick even if he had a copy of their playbook.

namepeace said:

kpowers said:

Yup Brady has a hard time against those Manning brothers

The Mannings are 5-2 against Brady in conference title or Super Bowl games. Incredible.

Now I got the theme of the Dukes of Hazard stuck in my head

For the record I don't "hate" Tomlin, I want nothing more than him to be the most successful coach in the NFL. I didn't hate Lebeau, but his style of coaching was not productive for the Steelers. I also don't hate Butler but I think he needs to go. If Cowher was still coaching and still losing to the Patriots I would also think it was time for him to. Heck thought Bettis needed to retire his last few years and he is one of my all time favorites, Troy P too. To much talent on the Steelers team and being out coach is the problem. Haley being let go may (or may not) be a good thing.

kpowers said:

namepeace said:

O'Donnell threw those picks in SB XXX, and Tommy Maddox, who made a playoff run with them one year. You're right that it would have been interesting to see what he'd have done with a true franchise QB.

But overall he had a losing record against Brady and Belichick. Given that and the other bad playoff losses his teams sustained before the Pats' Dynasty, I find it difficult to believe that the Steelers would have fared any better against the Pats if he'd been on the sidelines instead of Tomlin.

EXACTLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! That's why I would have love to have Cowher and Ben together longer. I'm not saying they would dominate the Patriots but I think they would have won a few games against the Patriots and not be 0-what ever. Tomlin couldn't beat Belichick even if he had a copy of their playbook.

With a Ben in his prime, Cowher *may* have gotten the Pats once, and maybe another title, but I don't know if he'd have won more in the last 10 years than Tomlin has. He'd have had as much trouble with the Ravens and Broncos that Tomlin (and Belichick) had.

Cowher was a career .623 coach with only 3 losing seasons, who resurrected a franchise who went into the tank for much of the decade after their last Super Bowl. Tomlin is a career .659 coach with no losing seasons (yet) who cashed in on the team Cowher left him and kept winning long after Cowher had gone. Both are 1-1 in Super Bowls.

They're fairly even.

namepeace said:

kpowers said:

EXACTLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! That's why I would have love to have Cowher and Ben together longer. I'm not saying they would dominate the Patriots but I think they would have won a few games against the Patriots and not be 0-what ever. Tomlin couldn't beat Belichick even if he had a copy of their playbook.

With a Ben in his prime, Cowher *may* have gotten the Pats once, and maybe another title, but I don't know if he'd have won more in the last 10 years than Tomlin has. He'd have had as much trouble with the Ravens and Broncos that Tomlin (and Belichick) had.

Cowher was a career .623 coach with only 3 losing seasons, who resurrected a franchise who went into the tank for much of the decade after their last Super Bowl. Tomlin is a career .659 coach with no losing seasons (yet) who cashed in on the team Cowher left him and kept winning long after Cowher had gone. Both are 1-1 in Super Bowls.

They're fairly even.

Could have more if Cowher stayed

kpowers said:

For the record I don't "hate" Tomlin, I want nothing more than him to be the most successful coach in the NFL. I didn't hate Lebeau, but his style of coaching was not productive for the Steelers. I also don't hate Butler but I think he needs to go. If Cowher was still coaching and still losing to the Patriots I would also think it was time for him to. Heck thought Bettis needed to retire his last few years and he is one of my all time favorites, Troy P too. To much talent on the Steelers team and being out coach is the problem. Haley being let go may (or may not) be a good thing.

Plus they need help on defense.

uPtoWnNY said:

kpowers said:

For the record I don't "hate" Tomlin, I want nothing more than him to be the most successful coach in the NFL. I didn't hate Lebeau, but his style of coaching was not productive for the Steelers. I also don't hate Butler but I think he needs to go. If Cowher was still coaching and still losing to the Patriots I would also think it was time for him to. Heck thought Bettis needed to retire his last few years and he is one of my all time favorites, Troy P too. To much talent on the Steelers team and being out coach is the problem. Haley being let go may (or may not) be a good thing.

Plus they need help on defense.

That's why I said Butler needs to go. Losing Shazier hurt big time and will be hard to replace.

Chiefs traded Alex Smith to Washington.

PennyPurple said:

Chiefs traded Alex Smith to Washington.

So Cousins to Denver??????????

kpowers said:

namepeace said:

I really liked Cowher, but that's a bit of wishful thinking based on his record.

Before the Pats run, he had some bad losses at home in the playoffs to teams like the Chargers and Broncos.

The best team he had, the 15-1 team in 2005, led by a rookie Ben, lost to the Pats at home in the conference title game.

Heck, his team was blown out by the Parcells-led Pats in 1997 on their way to the Super Bowl.

Well it's one of those things we will never know. Let's face it Cowher had Kordell in that Bronco game and Kordell is no Ben . Kordell (big time choker) was also the QB (or was it Mike Tomczak, also a bad QB, it's been awhile) in that Parcells-led Pats in 1997. Maybe if they kept Neil O'Donell they made had different results. Steelers were not gonna win Super Bowl games with Kordell. Kordell was good as slash and was no starter. Yes Steelers lost to the Chargers but did take his team to the Super bowl the next year. Also yes they lost in 2005 to the Pats at home in the conference title game but once again Cowher took them to the Superbowl the next year and beat the Seahawks. Would of love to see Cowher and Ben together longer than just what 2 seasons together. I do believe they would have gone to more Superbowls together. Sorry Phunkdaddy but that was Cowhers team when they beat the Cardinals.

[Edited 1/30/18 11:20am]

Well there is several ways we can flip the coin and play the what if game. Cowher would not have made it to the Super Bowl against Dallas had WR Ernie Mills wouldn't have stripped Quentin Coryatt of a sure Neil O'Donnell int that would have sealed the 1996 AFC Championship game for the Colts. Cowher may not have won his only Super Bowl in 14 years had it not been for the Carson Palmer injury in the Wild Card round. IJS. Who's to say Kordell would not have won a Super Bowl? In the 2001 AFC Championship game against New England it was Special Teams that did the Steelers in and dug themselves a hole. It was Kordell who actually got them back in the game. Kordell was no franchise qb nor O'Donnell but it cetainly didn't help Kordell changing OC's every other year. Cowher had great defenses those years that were good enough to win with an average qb not named Mike Tomczak or Kent Graham. Joe Gibbs won a Super Bowl with Washington and a guy named Mark Rypien and Bill Parcells did the same for the Giants with a guy named Jeff Hostetler so I don't drink the Cowher couldn't win a Super Bowl without a franchise qb Kool Aid. He had argubly the best defense in the league in the early 90's and a strong running game that should have won a Super Bowl. Nobody is cutting Tomlin slack for not having good defenses. Cowher was a good coach but certainly not on the level of a Bill Walsh or Bill Parcells and the weird thing is only Tomlin haters seem to think so. How fast we forget Cowher had 3 straight non playoff seasons and 2 of which were losing seasons and one of those seasons included 2 ugly losses to a 3-13 Bengals team and the other losing season included a home loss to the expansion Browns. Tomlin is in the same boat Cowher is as far is coaching good but not great. I'll even go as far as to say Cowher was a better X's and O's coach on the defensive side but their is no huge disparity in their coaching abilities like most Tomlin haters would have you think.

[Edited 1/30/18 21:16pm]

PennyPurple said:

Chiefs traded Alex Smith to Washington.

So they are putting their faith in Patrick Mahomes?

[Edited 1/30/18 21:19pm]

kpowers said:

For the record I don't "hate" Tomlin, I want nothing more than him to be the most successful coach in the NFL. I didn't hate Lebeau, but his style of coaching was not productive for the Steelers. I also don't hate Butler but I think he needs to go. If Cowher was still coaching and still losing to the Patriots I would also think it was time for him to. Heck thought Bettis needed to retire his last few years and he is one of my all time favorites, Troy P too. To much talent on the Steelers team and being out coach is the problem. Haley being let go may (or may not) be a good thing.

A lot of talent on offense but severely lacking talented playmakers on the defensive side which

is something Tomlin and the front office need to address as well as playing to their strengths.

[Edited 1/30/18 21:23pm]

phunkdaddy said:

kpowers said:

Well it's one of those things we will never know. Let's face it Cowher had Kordell in that Bronco game and Kordell is no Ben . Kordell (big time choker) was also the QB (or was it Mike Tomczak, also a bad QB, it's been awhile) in that Parcells-led Pats in 1997. Maybe if they kept Neil O'Donell they made had different results. Steelers were not gonna win Super Bowl games with Kordell. Kordell was good as slash and was no starter. Yes Steelers lost to the Chargers but did take his team to the Super bowl the next year. Also yes they lost in 2005 to the Pats at home in the conference title game but once again Cowher took them to the Superbowl the next year and beat the Seahawks. Would of love to see Cowher and Ben together longer than just what 2 seasons together. I do believe they would have gone to more Superbowls together. Sorry Phunkdaddy but that was Cowhers team when they beat the Cardinals.

[Edited 1/30/18 11:20am]

Well there is several ways we can flip the coin and play the what if game. Cowher would not have made it to the Super Bowl against Dallas had WR Ernie Mills wouldn't have stripped Quentin Coryatt of a sure Neil O'Donnell int that would have sealed the 1996 AFC Championship game for the Colts. Cowher may not have won his only Super Bowl in 14 years had it not been for the Carson Palmer injury in the Wild Card round. IJS. Who's to say Kordell would not have won a Super Bowl? In the 2001 AFC Championship game against New England it was Special Teams that did the Steelers in and dug themselves a hole. It was Kordell who actually got them back in the game. Kordell was no franchise qb nor O'Donnell but it cetainly didn't help Kordell changing OC's every other year. Cowher had great defenses those years that were good enough to win with an average qb not named Mike Tomczak or Kent Graham. Joe Gibbs won a Super Bowl with Washington and a guy named Mark Rypien and Bill Parcells did the same for the Giants with a guy named Jeff Hostetler so I don't drink the Cowher couldn't win a Super Bowl without a franchise qb Kool Aid. He had argubly the best defense in the league in the early 90's and a strong running game that should have won a Super Bowl. Nobody is cutting Tomlin slack for not having good defenses. Cowher was a good coach but certainly not on the level of a Bill Walsh or Bill Parcells and the weird thing is only Tomlin haters seem to think so. How fast we forget Cowher had 3 straight non playoff seasons and 2 of which were losing seasons and one of those seasons included 2 ugly losses to a 3-13 Bengals team and the other losing season included a home loss to the expansion Browns. Tomlin is in the same boat Cowher is as far is coaching good but not great. I'll even go as far as to say Cowher was a better X's and O's coach on the defensive side but their is no huge disparity in their coaching abilities like most Tomlin haters would have you think.

[Edited 1/30/18 21:16pm]

That would be me

phunkdaddy said:

PennyPurple said:

Chiefs traded Alex Smith to Washington.

So they are putting their faith in Patrick Mahomes?

[Edited 1/30/18 21:19pm]

Yes, it seems that way. Fans here aren't very happy that they got rid of Alex. And they haven't said what we got in return.

Fans are saying maybe it should have been Andy Reid to go.

PennyPurple said:

Chiefs traded Alex Smith to Washington.

WSH is getting basically the same player for less money.

But I think the team is about to finally get the picture on where its holes are on offense. When Cousins had WRs to throw to the last few years he was effective. His problem was his turnovers -- he always found the worst times to give the ball away.

Smith isn't as prone to turnovers but he may fare worse with the personnel than Cousins did. WSH needs to get healthy, get pass catchers, and better playmakers in the secondary.