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Forums > General Discussion > Artificial intelligence named 'Sophia Robot' has been granted citizenship in Saudia Arabia,
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Reply #90 posted 11/13/17 4:13am

XxAxX

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TheFman said:

imo there is no point in granting something 100% mechanical (besides a recording of one's brain - future stuff) citizenship.


First should come animals smile



true!

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Reply #91 posted 11/14/17 4:31am

domainator2010

KingBAD said:

altruistic people have to go through other folks to get

fundin for their creations and to get their creations into

reality there are things they have to give up, like information

on where they're at in their developments and show

step by step the process of how the things are made and work...


Talking of altruistic people - Google "GNU AI" - I've talked many times about Linux in the past over here, these are from the same guys. That's where I found "Mycroft" btw - did you try it?? smile

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Reply #92 posted 11/14/17 7:42am

morningsong

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XxAxX said:



domainator2010 said:




XxAxX said:




gosh, let's see. perhaps my misgivings arise from the fact that, when the industrial revolution first appeared on the horizon of civilization, everyone said "wow! we don't have to work any more, because the machines will do that for us and we'll all live lives of ease!" and yet, as it turned out, we know that was not the case at all.

or maybe my misgivings are the result of the knowledge that, once AI reaches the singularity, it will be beyond our capacity to even keep up with let alone understand what AI is truly 'thinking'. and thus it will be impossible to control AI as it may eventually decide that us human beings are not intelligent enough to know what is in our best interests, and therefore cannot give orders.

then again, i might be ambivalent about the rise of AI because it will inevitably replace human beings at jobs, leaving them unemployed and without a means for earning money, as has been the case with the replacement of humans in the manufacture of cars, for example.

and finally, maybe it is beause almost every fresh, ground-breaking development in technology has been turned into weapons of destruction.

that said, i still think it is pretty darn cool~!




Well, we ARE living lives of greater ease than we did BEFORE the machines, right? I mean, if you went back to horse drawn carriages - some poor horses would be under severe stress, right?
We'll just find other things to do....




"impossible to control AI"? How about using the OFF SWITCH?? I mean, the computer/s run on *electricity*, right??

"leaving them unemployed and without a means for earning money"


This is a gigaaaaantic question, social and political, not just technological - it seems to *me* that utopia would be if robots simply farm our food, and solar powered drones fly it to us. That way we, i.e. humanity gets fed for FREE! And in a renewable fashion! That would be the end of all wars and conflict, right?

The ONLY thing (and I'm a computer programmer, btw, though I know nothing about AI) that a machine cannot do, is to get an IDEA. It CANNOT write a poem, it CANNOT paint a great picture, it CANNOT compose a fantastic LOVE SONG - THESE are the things that will be the only thing left for humanity to do. Where's the problem.....? smile



a machine cannot do, is to get an IDEA. It CANNOT write a poem, it CANNOT paint a great picture, it CANNOT composte a fantastic LOVE SONG - THESE are the things that will be the only thing left for humanity to do.

i appreciate your ideas, even though they conflict with mine sometimes. it's all good!

without wishing to be combative and fighting over something silly - not only can Sophia converse, she makes jokes and recently 'sang' a song she wrote on a talk show. it was a strange song, kind of wistful in a milky way style. i'll see if i can find that clip. meanwhile, this clip is only a few minutes long and will show you how far AI has come.






Yet. It's being worked on as we speak.
“Do I dare Disturb the universe?”
― T.S. Eliot

“Only by acceptance of the past, can you alter it”
― T.S. Eliot
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Reply #93 posted 11/14/17 7:48am

morningsong

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I'm assuming citizenship is a fancy way of saying it'll never be sold.
[Edited 11/14/17 7:49am]
“Do I dare Disturb the universe?”
― T.S. Eliot

“Only by acceptance of the past, can you alter it”
― T.S. Eliot
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Reply #94 posted 11/14/17 8:48am

KingBAD

morningsong said:

I'm assuming citizenship is a fancy way of saying it'll never be sold. [Edited 11/14/17 7:49am]

good point

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Reply #95 posted 11/14/17 11:47am

morningsong

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KingBAD said:

morningsong said:

I'm assuming citizenship is a fancy way of saying it'll never be sold. [Edited 11/14/17 7:49am]

good point



It'll be funny one day if it becomes a defector. Then what?

“Do I dare Disturb the universe?”
― T.S. Eliot

“Only by acceptance of the past, can you alter it”
― T.S. Eliot
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Reply #96 posted 11/14/17 12:38pm

TheFman

morningsong said:

I'm assuming citizenship is a fancy way of saying it'll never be sold. [Edited 11/14/17 7:49am]

Interesting take, but i don't think that'll be the case. Everything's for sale, but not for everybody.
Here, i can see two developing lines: a governmental and a public one.

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Reply #97 posted 11/14/17 12:53pm

morningsong

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TheFman said:

morningsong said:

I'm assuming citizenship is a fancy way of saying it'll never be sold. [Edited 11/14/17 7:49am]

Interesting take, but i don't think that'll be the case. Everything's for sale, but not for everybody.
Here, i can see two developing lines: a governmental and a public one.



Can you legally sell a citizen? I just figured there's no benefit to anyone making her a citizen, even publicity wise, because so far it doesn't look like something that ready to roll out on the assembly line anytime soon. Citizenship throughout history extends an individual certain rights, being that it's Saudi Arabia, I'm not sure what those rights are exactly beyond placing it above a thing to be traded at will.

“Do I dare Disturb the universe?”
― T.S. Eliot

“Only by acceptance of the past, can you alter it”
― T.S. Eliot
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Reply #98 posted 11/14/17 2:35pm

KingBAD

morningsong said:

TheFman said:

Interesting take, but i don't think that'll be the case. Everything's for sale, but not for everybody.
Here, i can see two developing lines: a governmental and a public one.



Can you legally sell a citizen? I just figured there's no benefit to anyone making her a citizen, even publicity wise, because so far it doesn't look like something that ready to roll out on the assembly line anytime soon. Citizenship throughout history extends an individual certain rights, being that it's Saudi Arabia, I'm not sure what those rights are exactly beyond placing it above a thing to be traded at will.

Ooooooooo a new wrinkle....

legally NO but anyone can be sold through

various loopholes (marriage?)

WHAT IF as a citizen it decided to move on

or travel alone?

what if it wants to take a walk?

what does it do for alone time?

does it get to say when it wants to be left alone

or does it unnastand that it is property?

if it knows that it is property, how does it

rectify the fact that it has been given citizenship...

IF i become aware (sophia cannot be aware because

of those simple questions i put forth)i wanna know

what my limitations are and why i have them...

how does it deal with anger?

if a thing can't feel anger, how does it qualify

to get citizenship... is somethin with no emotion

a good thing?

it said it feels...

is a mahine with feelings a good thing?

if it feels, shouldn't it be startin to feel disappointment

in it's life conditions?

it has no needs yet has no freedoms yet it's bein

given the impression of freedom...

[Edited 11/14/17 14:38pm]

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Reply #99 posted 11/14/17 3:28pm

morningsong

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KingBAD said:

morningsong said:



Can you legally sell a citizen? I just figured there's no benefit to anyone making her a citizen, even publicity wise, because so far it doesn't look like something that ready to roll out on the assembly line anytime soon. Citizenship throughout history extends an individual certain rights, being that it's Saudi Arabia, I'm not sure what those rights are exactly beyond placing it above a thing to be traded at will.

Ooooooooo a new wrinkle....

legally NO but anyone can be sold through

various loopholes (marriage?)

WHAT IF as a citizen it decided to move on

or travel alone?

what if it wants to take a walk?

what does it do for alone time?

does it get to say when it wants to be left alone

or does it unnastand that it is property?

if it knows that it is property, how does it

rectify the fact that it has been given citizenship...

IF i become aware (sophia cannot be aware because

of those simple questions i put forth)i wanna know

what my limitations are and why i have them...

how does it deal with anger?

if a thing can't feel anger, how does it qualify

to get citizenship... is somethin with no emotion

a good thing?

it said it feels...

is a mahine with feelings a good thing?

if it feels, shouldn't it be startin to feel disappointment

in it's life conditions?

it has no needs yet has no freedoms yet it's bein

given the impression of freedom...

[Edited 11/14/17 14:38pm]



As of the moment that "thing" will be doing none of those things because it doesn't have the capacity to choose to do it, it is basically still owned by someone more than anything possibly the government. And if I understand correctly most women have that same issue there yet they are still citizens. So yeah, in the case of marriage it can be "sold" in a manner of speaking, but I'm assuming there are even laws that can be used even in those instances even if they are not always followed at the individual level.

“Do I dare Disturb the universe?”
― T.S. Eliot

“Only by acceptance of the past, can you alter it”
― T.S. Eliot
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Reply #100 posted 11/14/17 4:22pm

morningsong

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Where is Hanson Robotics based anyway? Hanson, the inventor, the person is American.


Nevermind, it's based in Hong Kong.



[Edited 11/14/17 16:23pm]

“Do I dare Disturb the universe?”
― T.S. Eliot

“Only by acceptance of the past, can you alter it”
― T.S. Eliot
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Reply #101 posted 11/14/17 5:01pm

KingBAD

morningsong said:

Where is Hanson Robotics based anyway? Hanson, the inventor, the person is American.


Nevermind, it's based in Hong Kong.



[Edited 11/14/17 16:23pm]

http://www.scmp.com/news/world/middle-east/article/2117568/saudi-arabia-grants-citizenship-hong-kong-robot-sophia-rights

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Reply #102 posted 11/14/17 5:13pm

morningsong

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KingBAD said:

morningsong said:

Where is Hanson Robotics based anyway? Hanson, the inventor, the person is American.


Nevermind, it's based in Hong Kong.



[Edited 11/14/17 16:23pm]

http://www.scmp.com/news/world/middle-east/article/2117568/saudi-arabia-grants-citizenship-hong-kong-robot-sophia-rights



Which I must admit has got me curious why they would do that. This isn't about SOPHIA at all. I kind of took it for granted that this was a Saudi based company, but since it's not I'm wondering if there is a Hanson branch office looking for a location, they just moved to Hong Kong from the States. What were their limitations in the States, if any besides taxes? This is business, and billionaires' games. Given what just took place in Saudi, is really making me go, hmmm. And given what Trump's trying to get the Saudi leader to do, it's double hmmm.

“Do I dare Disturb the universe?”
― T.S. Eliot

“Only by acceptance of the past, can you alter it”
― T.S. Eliot
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Reply #103 posted 11/15/17 4:08am

TheFman

morningsong said:

KingBAD said:

http://www.scmp.com/news/world/middle-east/article/2117568/saudi-arabia-grants-citizenship-hong-kong-robot-sophia-rights



Which I must admit has got me curious why they would do that. This isn't about SOPHIA at all. I kind of took it for granted that this was a Saudi based company, but since it's not I'm wondering if there is a Hanson branch office looking for a location, they just moved to Hong Kong from the States. What were their limitations in the States, if any besides taxes? This is business, and billionaires' games. Given what just took place in Saudi, is really making me go, hmmm. And given what Trump's trying to get the Saudi leader to do, it's double hmmm.

That's easy: it fits the new Saudi plan, post-oil. id you read about their megastructure green city?

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Reply #104 posted 11/15/17 8:29am

KingBAD

TheFman said:

morningsong said:



Which I must admit has got me curious why they would do that. This isn't about SOPHIA at all. I kind of took it for granted that this was a Saudi based company, but since it's not I'm wondering if there is a Hanson branch office looking for a location, they just moved to Hong Kong from the States. What were their limitations in the States, if any besides taxes? This is business, and billionaires' games. Given what just took place in Saudi, is really making me go, hmmm. And given what Trump's trying to get the Saudi leader to do, it's double hmmm.

That's easy: it fits the new Saudi plan, post-oil. id you read about their megastructure green city?

fullfillin the prophacy of DUNE

lol lol lol lol lol lol lol

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Reply #105 posted 11/15/17 10:34am

morningsong

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TheFman said:

morningsong said:



Which I must admit has got me curious why they would do that. This isn't about SOPHIA at all. I kind of took it for granted that this was a Saudi based company, but since it's not I'm wondering if there is a Hanson branch office looking for a location, they just moved to Hong Kong from the States. What were their limitations in the States, if any besides taxes? This is business, and billionaires' games. Given what just took place in Saudi, is really making me go, hmmm. And given what Trump's trying to get the Saudi leader to do, it's double hmmm.

That's easy: it fits the new Saudi plan, post-oil. id you read about their megastructure green city?



Nope. What is it?

“Do I dare Disturb the universe?”
― T.S. Eliot

“Only by acceptance of the past, can you alter it”
― T.S. Eliot
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Forums > General Discussion > Artificial intelligence named 'Sophia Robot' has been granted citizenship in Saudia Arabia,