morningsong said:

Do White Walkers grow up exceedingly fast? What happened to the baby?


They aren’t indiscriminate, though: The Walkers created some sort of truce with Craster, who gave them his baby boys in return for being left in peace.



“Kill him,” Beric says, pointing toward the Night King. “He turned them all.”

[Edited 8/21/17 13:56pm]

Craster gave up a lot of babies over the years.

namepeace said:

morningsong said:

Do White Walkers grow up exceedingly fast? What happened to the baby?


They aren’t indiscriminate, though: The Walkers created some sort of truce with Craster, who gave them his baby boys in return for being left in peace.



“Kill him,” Beric says, pointing toward the Night King. “He turned them all.”

[Edited 8/21/17 13:56pm]

Craster gave up a lot of babies over the years.

He sure has. Means there's a lot of White Walkers.

missfee said:

Let's get to it:

1. It was predictable that Jon and Dany were going to end up falling for each other, but can Bran get to Jon early enough for him to discover his true parentage before he and Dany consummate their newfound love for each other?

He won't. While I'm not here for another interfamilial thing, the Targaryens historically intermarrried (like the royal families of medieval times on which they're based). So even when they find out the truth, they still may wind up together.

2. Sansa is pissing me off. Her envy of Arya and still having Littlefinger's slithering ass hanging around her is clouding her judgement.

They don't believe Jon, so they're fighting their now-petty squabbles dating back to the War Before Last (the War of the Five Kings) again. Something tells me that they will get a rude awakening from (a) Bran, if he ever decides to quit playing around and tell them the truth about Littlefinger, or (b) the Night King himself.

3. Speaking of Arya...umm Sansa better not fuck with her.

Arya giving Sansa that blade may mean Arya's onto Littlefinger.

4. Again speaking of Arya, are we going to see a reunion between her and Gendry? I sure hope so.

Me too. That might calm her down.

5. I was dying laughing when Tormound and the Hound were discussing Brienne...Tormound is smitten while the Hound was clearly annoyed (since she beat the hell out of him).

Tormund's like . . . "my bae is waiting back at Winterfell for me . . ." Shoot Your Shot, Red! That's the romance I AM here for!

6. I can't say enough how fast these ravens are this season.

The MVP's. They've been training for 6 seasons to finally get some work in.

7. I was so nervous with Jon and co. fighting the white walkers and their chances looking grim. If Jon was to be killed off for good, I was going to be completely done with this show.

We knew better. But don't be surprised if/when he is.

8. Speaking of Jon, those eyes of his are electric, whew!!!!! That man is just too cute for his own good.

Apparently Dany agrees.

9. Poor Tyrion, it seems he just can't win. Daenerys can't help but to keep questioning his loyalty to her. And now he's on this trip of how she should be worrying about successors and the future. I'm sort of with Dany on only worrying about the wars of the present for now.

She's showing flashes of madness and paranoia. As funny as it sounds, she's in a strange land now so she's feeling less secure.

FunkGetsStronger said:

So, I am just going to list some of my complaints...

- Benjen's last minute sacrifice out of nowhere to save Jon (Maybe Bran warned him, but still...) was stupid and too convenient, especially given Dany's convenience. This all felt pretty cheap to me in the end.

Sure. It was a plot device to bail out the lead hero and tie up Benjen's loose end.

- Some important characters should have died. There's way too much plot armor right now and I never really feared it would happen. I think Tormund or even Jon deserved to die with the situations they put them in. Just like Bronn or Jamie deserved to die in episode 4.

Give it time. I think the showrunners are staging a Shakespearan-like final act where a lot of them will die. Think Hamlet with zombies and dragons.


- I don't understand why Beric has a conversation with Jon about "you don't look like your father". We have been told Jon does look like Ned, even more than any of his trueborn sons. This is one of the reasons Catelyn hated him so much... Why mess with the already established story just to force more Rhaegar down our throats?

They're building in another significant figure who will buy Jon-as-Targaryen when it's dropped, because most of the characters won't believe it.

- I don't really like the Winterfell plot. The Arya/Sansa conflict there feels extremely forced. Is it supposed to be? They can't really be this stupid, right?

It's messy, trying to build up to a drawatic reveal of Littlefinger's betrayal or Sansa's "heel turn". But this is what happens when you leave scarred teenagers in charge of the House.

- Jon calling Daenerys "Dany" made no sense.

Nope.

- Tyrion continues to be useless and butchered.

He's more conflicted than he thought he'd be. When major figures start dropping he'll have more to do.

- Why did killing the White Walker who resurrected the Wights kill them all, except for one?

Maybe because that White didn't turn that wight.

I am open to hear some counters and I still enjoyed it, but I thought it was kinda forgettable compared to episodes like Hardhome. One thing I won't complain about is the "teleportation" for Dany and the ravens, I get it at this point. And another thing is the White Walkers surrounding the lake but not attacking it. It seems they were actually prepared and waiting for Dany to show up with the dragons, which supports the idea they have Greenseers? That is the best explanation for it anyway.

Fair points. I think Walkers were afraid of going across the river of thin ice. "Hardhome" established wights can't deal with deep water. It was a plot device but it was set up a couple of years ago.

Well since we are talking about "jumped the shark" plots. Uh, where did those giant chains come from? And who went down and hooked those chains to the dragon if wights can't swim?

TrivialPursuit said:

214 said:

It was not believable, hundreds if not thousands of white walkers against 6 or so guys, and they survived them all...

But dragons, walking dead people, an incestuous monarchy, and a giant the size of the Eiffel Tower is perfectly legit. But six dudes fighting off the characters from Michael Jackson's Ghosts totally takes you out of fantasy.

ufoclub said:

TrivialPursuit said:

But dragons, walking dead people, an incestuous monarchy, and a giant the size of the Eiffel Tower is perfectly legit. But six dudes fighting off the characters from Michael Jackson's Ghosts totally takes you out of fantasy.

It's because fiction makes up it's own rules, and then if it breaks it's own rules, it feels weird. In this case, the series goes out of it's way to show one on one fights as brutal, with people getting killed. It tries to make the physical effects of it's fiction realistic, for example a fictional fire from a dragon completely burns it's victims, not leaving them soot covered but alive.

In this episode, you saw a crowd all running towards them almost tumbling over each other, but then when surrounded, they somehow got to fight them off a few at a time for a while.

The more believable thing would have been similar to the scene in Lord of the Rings (Fellowship of the Ring) where they put a doorway or small passage between them that forces the attackers to filter in a few at a time.

Exactly, all of a sudden they take turns to fight with those guys; when they could easily kill them in a minute or less.

Do you want a spoiler about Sansa?

214 said:

Do you want a spoiler about Sansa?

No.

214 said:

Do you want a spoiler about Sansa?

C'mon Dude. STOP! seriously stop trying to spoil it for us, I've asked you before to just stop.

PennyPurple said:

214 said:

Do you want a spoiler about Sansa?

C'mon Dude. STOP! seriously stop trying to spoil it for us, I've asked you before to just stop.

Dude i haven't made any spoil so stop it.

214 said:

PennyPurple said:

C'mon Dude. STOP! seriously stop trying to spoil it for us, I've asked you before to just stop.

Dude i haven't made any spoil so stop it.

Yes you do. You try to spoil it for us on every upcoming episode.

PennyPurple said:

214 said:

Dude i haven't made any spoil so stop it.

Yes you do. You try to spoil it for us on every upcoming episode.

Drama queen, i might try but at the end i never do.

214 said:

PennyPurple said:

Yes you do. You try to spoil it for us on every upcoming episode.

Drama queen, i might try but at the end i never do.

Please see my above post. I guess I should've bolded the word TRY.

PennyPurple said:

214 said:

Drama queen, i might try but at the end i never do.

Please see my above post. I guess I should've bolded the word TRY.

Ok, let's move on. Sansa then...

214 said:

PennyPurple said:

Please see my above post. I guess I should've bolded the word TRY.

Ok, let's move on. Sansa then...

the show having turned 'cool yet unsatisfying' is redeeming for me since i get to enjoy
the show still, be it in a more regular hollywood kind of fashion lately, and then if and
when we get the final two books, we'll have the better worked out story lines i'm sure.

the whole things about the dragon ending up with the white walkers probably won't be
in the books since someone else might get themselves a dragon, or several, there. so
it seems like the storylines for the books and the show will be quite different.

there is also a correllation between arya running into nymeria and
the dynamic between arya and sansah, imo.

arya says 'it wasn't you' when the wolf finally turns and runs off,
but are we sure? given what arya has been through, and the way
nymeria was left behind/shoed away, she might have recognised
arya physically, but not recognised the person she now is.

why else the need to show this 'confrontation' between arya and
a random wolf? as a way to make us remember her ties to the
land of her home -like her meeting with hot pie? but then, if it's
not actually nymeria, would they waste the cgi money on such a
scene? i mean, north of the wall there was enough cgi going on to
stretch the budget quite a bit

unless... the actual nymeria is going to turn up and this was just a
not so subtle reminders for the viewers that yes, arya did indeed
have her own dyre wolf once upon a time, before she threw a rock
at it and chased it away to prevent queenie mcmeany having it be
put to death.

oh the possibillities

I think Nymeria has a bigger role to play later on, unlike the other Stark wolves she has a pack, an army. So like Arya, she's been busy training.

I don't think Arya has ever wanted to be in Sansa's face (place), but someone does. I am worried about what's going on in Sansa's head more than Arya's. Sansa sent Brienne away, after it's been repeat several times that Brienne would not let either Stark girl hurt the other. If Sansa was worried about Arya hurting her then I would think she'd want Brienne to stick around, if it were in her head to harm Arya, then she'd need Brienne gone. That's bothering me.

[Edited 8/22/17 18:49pm]

IstenSzek said:

there is also a correllation between arya running into nymeria and
the dynamic between arya and sansah, imo.

arya says 'it wasn't you' when the wolf finally turns and runs off,
but are we sure? given what arya has been through, and the way
nymeria was left behind/shoed away, she might have recognised
arya physically, but not recognised the person she now is.

why else the need to show this 'confrontation' between arya and
a random wolf? as a way to make us remember her ties to the
land of her home -like her meeting with hot pie? but then, if it's
not actually nymeria, would they waste the cgi money on such a
scene? i mean, north of the wall there was enough cgi going on to
stretch the budget quite a bit

unless... the actual nymeria is going to turn up and this was just a
not so subtle reminders for the viewers that yes, arya did indeed
have her own dyre wolf once upon a time, before she threw a rock
at it and chased it away to prevent queenie mcmeany having it be
put to death.

oh the possibillities

The writers explained the "It's not you" line in the episode commenatry saying Arya was essentially asking Nymeria to become her domesticated wolf again like in the beginning and Arya's line, "It's not you" was a reference to season one when Ned told Arya she could be a domesticated wife like many women, but that wasn't her. Arya understood that like herself, Nymeria had become too independent to allow anyone else to become her master.

ufoclub said:

TrivialPursuit said:

But dragons, walking dead people, an incestuous monarchy, and a giant the size of the Eiffel Tower is perfectly legit. But six dudes fighting off the characters from Michael Jackson's Ghosts totally takes you out of fantasy.

It's because fiction makes up it's own rules, and then if it breaks it's own rules, it feels weird. In this case, the series goes out of it's way to show one on one fights as brutal, with people getting killed. It tries to make the physical effects of it's fiction realistic, for example a fictional fire from a dragon completely burns it's victims, not leaving them soot covered but alive.

In this episode, you saw a crowd all running towards them almost tumbling over each other, but then when surrounded, they somehow got to fight them off a few at a time for a while.

The more believable thing would have been similar to the scene in Lord of the Rings (Fellowship of the Ring) where they put a doorway or small passage between them that forces the attackers to filter in a few at a time.

The way I saw it, there was only one way to the top of the rock/island in the middle of the lake and that was up the incline at the front. The rear was a steep drop and it took some time for the wights to realize they could get to Jon that way only if they climbed on top one another which is what happened at the end just before the dragons arrived.

sexton said:

IstenSzek said:

there is also a correllation between arya running into nymeria and
the dynamic between arya and sansah, imo.

arya says 'it wasn't you' when the wolf finally turns and runs off,
but are we sure? given what arya has been through, and the way
nymeria was left behind/shoed away, she might have recognised
arya physically, but not recognised the person she now is.

why else the need to show this 'confrontation' between arya and
a random wolf? as a way to make us remember her ties to the
land of her home -like her meeting with hot pie? but then, if it's
not actually nymeria, would they waste the cgi money on such a
scene? i mean, north of the wall there was enough cgi going on to
stretch the budget quite a bit

unless... the actual nymeria is going to turn up and this was just a
not so subtle reminders for the viewers that yes, arya did indeed
have her own dyre wolf once upon a time, before she threw a rock
at it and chased it away to prevent queenie mcmeany having it be
put to death.

oh the possibillities

The writers explained the "It's not you" line in the episode commenatry saying Arya was essentially asking Nymeria to become her domesticated wolf again like in the beginning and Arya's line, "It's not you" was a reference to season one when Ned told Arya she could be a domesticated wife like many women, but that wasn't her. Arya understood that like herself, Nymeria had become too independent to allow anyone else to become her master.

oh wow, thanks for posting that that totally went over my head watching it,
eventhough it makes perfect sense i like that, a lot

morningsong said:

I think Nymeria has a bigger role to play later on, unlike the other Stark wolves she has a pack, an army. So like Arya, she's been busy training.

I don't think Arya has ever wanted to be in Sansa's face (place), but someone does. I am worried about what's going on in Sansa's head more than Arya's. Sansa sent Brienne away, after it's been repeat several times that Brienne would not let either Stark girl hurt the other. If Sansa was worried about Arya hurting her then I would think she'd want Brienne to stick around, if it were in her head to harm Arya, then she'd need Brienne gone. That's bothering me.

[Edited 8/22/17 18:49pm]

yeah, i don't really understand what sansa's motivations are here. i hope it will all be
explained in a way that the two sisters still end up having each others' back, in the end.

I just read this morning that the season finale is titled "The Dragon and the Wolf" and the episode will be about 79 minutes long, the longest episode in GoT history. Also, the final season will go into production in October, HOWEVER, don't hold your breath. It won't be aired until either late 2018 or early 2019.

missfee said:

I just read this morning that the season finale is titled "The Dragon and the Wolf" and the episode will be about 79 minutes long, the longest episode in GoT history. Also, the final season will go into production in October, HOWEVER, don't hold your breath. It won't be aired until either late 2018 or early 2019.

Argh. Why do they have to wait so long in between seasons?

PennyPurple said:

missfee said:

I just read this morning that the season finale is titled "The Dragon and the Wolf" and the episode will be about 79 minutes long, the longest episode in GoT history. Also, the final season will go into production in October, HOWEVER, don't hold your breath. It won't be aired until either late 2018 or early 2019.

Argh. Why do they have to wait so long in between seasons?

After watching the post-show "making of" for "North of the Wall," I understand why. There is a lot of work that goes into production and post-production for the scenes that have to be staged for its endgame.

sexton said:

IstenSzek said:

there is also a correllation between arya running into nymeria and
the dynamic between arya and sansah, imo.

arya says 'it wasn't you' when the wolf finally turns and runs off,
but are we sure? given what arya has been through, and the way
nymeria was left behind/shoed away, she might have recognised
arya physically, but not recognised the person she now is.

why else the need to show this 'confrontation' between arya and
a random wolf? as a way to make us remember her ties to the
land of her home -like her meeting with hot pie? but then, if it's
not actually nymeria, would they waste the cgi money on such a
scene? i mean, north of the wall there was enough cgi going on to
stretch the budget quite a bit

unless... the actual nymeria is going to turn up and this was just a
not so subtle reminders for the viewers that yes, arya did indeed
have her own dyre wolf once upon a time, before she threw a rock
at it and chased it away to prevent queenie mcmeany having it be
put to death.

oh the possibillities

The writers explained the "It's not you" line in the episode commenatry saying Arya was essentially asking Nymeria to become her domesticated wolf again like in the beginning and Arya's line, "It's not you" was a reference to season one when Ned told Arya she could be a domesticated wife like many women, but that wasn't her. Arya understood that like herself, Nymeria had become too independent to allow anyone else to become her master.

That's beautiful.

Thoughts and predictions.

1)First off Arya is testing Sansa's loyality while playing littlefinger. With out us the audience and Sansa knowing it. Sansa needs littlefinger's troops that is why he is allowed at Winterfell. She loses the troops, she looses control of Winterfell. Littlefinger's objective is to cause conflict between the sisters and perhaps politically force Sansa into marriage to save herself and Winterfell. (Since John isn't there). Thus, getting what Littlefinger wants and that is legitimacy in the North by marrying Sansa and getting closer to being King of the North. He also is stirring the pot with all the other Northerners to cause pressure on Sansa while he distracts her with her sister.

2)Some plot holes: The fastest Raven in the World. Why not take out the lead guy with all 3 dragon attack at once?

3)Mother of Dragons can get pregnant by John someone who shares ancestry. Needs to be at least partially Targaryen.

4)Tyrion has been making a lot of bad choices because he is a little conflicted with his family. He wants to win without killing his brother. So, his decisions are light footed, meaning he isn't bringing his A game. Tyrion wants Dany to win, but internally he doesn't want his brother dead.

Next episode the White walkers breach the wall and take the castle. They have nothing to stop them now that they have this new weapon to use that nobody knows they have (so, they can't prepare).

Oh, and the leader of the iron fleet will attempt to kill Mother of Dragons in the meeting of the king and queens.

[Edited 8/24/17 9:39am]

[Edited 8/24/17 9:45am]

kewlschool said:

Thoughts and predictions.

1)First off Arya is testing Sansa's loyality while playing littlefinger. With out us the audience and Sansa knowing it. Sansa needs littlefinger's troops that is why he is allowed at Winterfell. She loses the troops, she looses control of Winterfell. Littlefinger's objective is to cause conflict between the sisters and perhaps politically force Sansa into marriage to save herself and Winterfell. (Since John isn't there). Thus, getting what Littlefinger wants and that is legitimacy in the North by marrying Sansa and getting closer to being King of the North.

I get the sense Arya knows Littlefinger's angle. Her training taught her how to read people as well. If and when Bran gets his head out of his wheels and tells his sisters the damn truth, Baelish is DOA.

2)Some plot holes: The fastest Raven in the World. Why not take out the lead guy with all 3 dragon attack at once?

The Ravens have had 6 seasons to train. It's game time now.

As for the strategy, Dany barely believed in the enemy, much less knew it going in. That's why. He could have taken out all 3 if she'd done that tho.

3)Mother of Dragons can get pregnant by John someone who shares ancestry. Needs to be at least partially Targaryen.

Interesting.

4)Tyrion has been making a lot of bad choices because he is a little conflicted with his family. He wants to win without killing his brother. So, his decisions are light footed, meaning he isn't bringing his A game. Tyrion wants Dany to win, but internally he doesn't want his brother dead.

That's exactly right.

Next episode the White walkers breach the wall and take the castle. They have nothing to stop them now that they have this new weapon to use that nobody knows they have (so, they can't prepare).

Yup. When the N.K. won the game of freeze tag with Bran, he not only killed the spells protecting the tree, he also likely killed the spells built into the wall to keep the Walkers out. So, the only question is how they do it.