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Thread started 11/29/16 9:47am

XxAxX

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Space Poop Challenge!!

that's right, poop! always such a fun topic!!! smile

before humans can even think about traveling to and colonizing Mars, we will have to figure out how to allow astronauts to safely pee and poop and menstruate inside their suits without exiting the suit, over long periods of time.

currently, astronauts utilize adult diapers for periods of up to one day. however, long-term use of diapers is not a viable solution as they cause rashes and infections.

NASA is offering a reward of $30,000 dollars to anyone who can create a working system to address this concern.


from: https://herox.com/SpacePoop/guidelines

Guidelines

Challenge Overview

The US National Aeronautics and Space Administration (NASA) seeks proposed solutions for urine, fecal and menstrual management systems to be used in the crew’s launch and entry suits over a continuous duration of up to 144 hours. An in-suit waste management system would be beneficial for contingency scenarios or for any long duration tasks.

Waste management systems should address fecal, urine, and/or menstrual waste management in a pressurized survival suit environment for six days while protecting the safety and health of crew members. Solutions should provide for urine collection of up to 1L per day per crew member, for a total of 6 days. Fecal collection rates should be targeted for 75 grams of fecal mass and 75 mL fecal volume per crewmember per day for a total of 6 days duration. Menstrual collection systems should handle up to 80 mL over 6 days.

NASA will award the Solutions it judges to be the most promising for implementation and use on missions in the next three or four years. NASA will consider collaborating with winners and/or other competitors, subject to NASA rules and regulations for contract procurement.

Background

Spaceflight launch and entry suits are worn for launch and entry activities to protect the crew from any off-nominal events. Up until now, a crew member could be in their launch and entry suit for more than 10 hours at a time leading up to either a launch or landing scenario, and former astronauts have worn diapers in case they need to relieve themselves. The diaper is only used temporarily until the crew has successfully launched from or returned to Earth. It is eventually removed along with the launch and entry suit.

Future missions may require long-duration waste management for use by a pressurized suited crew member. In the event of cabin depressurization or other contingency, crew members may need to take refuge in their launch and entry suits for a long-duration (144-hour). The crew member will have less than 60 minutes to get into and seal their spacesuit. To ensure the crew member’s safety, the Solution needs to take no more than 5 minutes of that time. The crew member will remain in their suit at a pressure of 4.3 PSID and in 100% oxygen environment, with a few tasks to complete inside the depressurized vehicle prior to vehicle. A system to route and collect human waste away from the body without the use of hands, that operates in the prescribed environment, is being sought to keep astronauts alive and healthy over 144 hours.

Current commercial products that provide urine waste management utilize gravity to route and collect urine away from the body. Some require the use of hands, and most are not meant to be used for 144 hours. No commercial products have been found that provide fecal waste management for a 144-hour period with or without the use of hands. While the implemented Solution can be discarded after each mission, it does have to function well for 6 days and multiple bowel and bladder evacuations.

ABOUT POOPING IN SPACE….

This challenge does not require you to be working in a field involving microgravity or to fully understand how the body and fluids work in a microgravity environment. We are going to tell you a bit about what ‘s different.

First, microgravity is what you might call “Zero Gravity”. Think vacuum. In a vacuum, solids, liquids and gases do not act the way they do on earth, where they are influenced by earth’s gravity. You probably have no problem imagining things floating around in space. Yes, sometimes solids, liquids, and gases do this. But they also might cling to the nearest surface due to surface tension. Imagine taking a shower up in space and having a glob of water under your armpit. Also, on earth, solids and liquids would likely mix together at least a little when in contact. Maybe not in microgravity.

As for your bodily functions. Well, in space there is no gravity to direct your urine away from your body when you release it. Same for poop. There is no gravity to pull it away when you release it. Menstrual fluid? At least some of it will exit a woman’s body. You don’t want that traveling around your suit. And don’t forget, you can’t always count on poop being solid, especially if you are up in space and nervous about the fact that your vehicle cabin has depressurized.

You don’t want any of these solids and fluids stuck to your body for 6 days. If you have ever taken care of a baby, you know how easy it is to get diaper rash. Left untreated, that can turn into a dangerous infection. You don’t want fecal matter getting into the urethra or the vagina, causing urinary tract or vaginal infections. Of course, you don’t want them to migrate to mouth, nose, ears or cuts. The point? Your Solution has to keep all of these materials away from the body, its orifices, and the spacesuit air inlet/outlet orifices.

How has NASA handled this in the past? Well, for one thing, they weren’t handling it for 6 days. Maybe a few hours. In the recent past, astronauts have worn an extremely absorbent adult diaper (in fact, innovation for space led to many of today’s baby diaper products). Most of the time the diaper is there for emergencies. Prior to that, men wore Urine Collection and Transfer Assembly (UCTA) and Fecal Collection Systems (FCS). Women have never had anything besides the adult diaper while wearing a suit. When not wearing a suit, but within the vehicle, women had a choice of 3 versions of cup-type urine collection systems that used air flow to effectively cause urine to swirl away from a woman’s body. No matter how you look at it, getting rid of wastes has been complicated, crude, uncomfortable, and messy, even with the use of hands. And now we are saying that you don’t have use of your hands – at least not inside the suit next to your body.

ABOUT THE SPACE SUIT

You will design a solution that can be incorporated into the orange Modified Advanced Crew Escape Suit (MACES). MACES has been adapted for missions of longer duration than the original Advanced Crew Escape Suit (ACES) was designed for.

The whole suit, including the gloves, is pressurized to 4.3 PSID to enable the body to function properly. Without pressure the body swells, loses most of its circulation, and of course, causes extreme pain. The gloves are attached by metal bearings to the sleeves to ensure a proper seal. Once the suit is sealed, it must remain sealed until the astronaut enters another pressurized environment. While sealed, it is impossible for an astronaut to access their own body, even to scratch their nose.

Gas (100% oxygen) enters at 4.5 cubic feet per minute through a waist level connector to fill the 2” space between the astronaut’s body and the suit, and circulates out through another waist level connector to be cleaned and brought back to the suit. A mesh cover protects against particles getting into the air connectors. If they did get inside, they could easily block the flow of air.

This gas supply is clearly a very precious commodity. While a very small amount is lost to leakage, the Solution must not add to this leakage. However, careful use 1000 cubic centimeters per minute (0.01 cubic feet per minute) over a period of 3 minutes per use would not jeopardize the integrity of the suit.

The suit allows the astronauts to move around, get into tight spaces, and sit down and buckle up for long periods of time. Your Solution should be comfortable in all of these situations.

Finally, a small power sources of up to 28V with current below 100mA could be provided inside or outside of the suit. To learn more about the functionality of space suits in general, see NASA’s What is a Space Suit and Wikipedia’s Space Suit. To read the detailed specifications of the MACES, click here.

PLANS FOR THE WINNING SOLUTIONS

NASA is ideally looking for Solutions that are comprised of technologies at a minimum Technical Readiness Level (TRL) of level 4, such that the Solution can be tested within 1 year and fully implemented within 3 years. However, for breakthrough innovations, NASA will consider Solutions that are at a lower TRL and therefore a longer implementation timeline.

NASA will consider collaborating with winners and/or other competitors, subject to NASA rules and regulations for contract procurement.

Prizes

The challenge offers up to $30,000 USD in prizes to innovative solutions for long duration waste management in a microgravity environment. NASA will award up to three prizes for the best ideas.


more details and continued at link - https://herox.com/SpacePoop/guidelines

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Reply #1 posted 11/29/16 11:00am

morningsong

Yeah, not only can't they hear you scream in space, ain't a porta potty in sight.





Well I don't know why NASA is even trying, they've just been told by the LA Times, iirc, that going to Mars is impossible for humans, but a trip to Titan would be better.

[Edited 11/29/16 11:02am]

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Reply #2 posted 11/29/16 12:55pm

XxAxX

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i got it!!! :bulb: idea the real solution is to stop space from being a vacuum nod nuts lol



there is a recent article about how astronauts' long term residence in near zero gravity has affected the shape of their eyeballs, flattening said eyeballs at the back and affecting their vision.


http://www.space.com/25392-manned-mars-mission-astronaut-vision.html
http://earthsky.org/space/space-flight-likely-affects-astronauts-eyes-study-reveals


alternatively, maybe the solution is to limit travelers' exposure to near zero gravity by shortening their journey to a mere instant.


we need to find a faster than light method of propulsion, maybe create tiny controllable wormholes and use their immense density/gravity to super-sling the travelers to their destination hmm

i love sci fi mushy

[Edited 11/29/16 12:58pm]

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Reply #3 posted 11/29/16 1:28pm

kpowers

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To bowly go where no one has gone before

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/10/01/11/2CF62B5C00000578-3256082-image-m-62_1443696962757.jpghttps://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/98/59/ba/9859bae9c8cf3e45b7c9d245ca1d155d.jpghttps://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/71x5aLDUTWL._SL256_.jpg

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Reply #4 posted 11/29/16 1:30pm

kpowers

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http://www.hant.se/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/h.jpghttp://geekologie.com/2014/01/09/uss-enterprise-house-4.jpg

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Reply #5 posted 11/29/16 2:52pm

EmmaMcG

morningsong said:

Yeah, not only can't they hear you scream in space, ain't a porta potty in sight.





Well I don't know why NASA is even trying, they've just been told by the LA Times, iirc, that going to Mars is impossible for humans, but a trip to Titan would be better.

[Edited 11/29/16 11:02am]



I'm sure NASA would know more than the LA Times about the possibility of going to Mars... smile

You do have to wonder though, why bother? Going to Mars or, indeed, Titan would be a great achievement but what's the point? Seems like a very costly venture for such a pointless trip. Maybe some of that money would be better off going towards hospitals or schools. You know, things that need sorting out now, in the present.

God, I sound like a miserable bitch. Forget what I said, let's go to space!!! smile
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Reply #6 posted 11/29/16 3:19pm

purplethunder3
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This guy's working on it! smile

Related image

"Music gives a soul to the universe, wings to the mind, flight to the imagination and life to everything." --Plato

https://youtu.be/CVwv9LZMah0
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Reply #7 posted 11/29/16 3:31pm

XxAxX

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kpowers said:

http://www.hant.se/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/h.jpghttp://geekologie.com/2014/01/09/uss-enterprise-house-4.jpg




nice!

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Reply #8 posted 11/29/16 3:36pm

XxAxX

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EmmaMcG said:

morningsong said:

Yeah, not only can't they hear you scream in space, ain't a porta potty in sight.





Well I don't know why NASA is even trying, they've just been told by the LA Times, iirc, that going to Mars is impossible for humans, but a trip to Titan would be better.

[Edited 11/29/16 11:02am]

I'm sure NASA would know more than the LA Times about the possibility of going to Mars... smile You do have to wonder though, why bother? Going to Mars or, indeed, Titan would be a great achievement but what's the point? Seems like a very costly venture for such a pointless trip. Maybe some of that money would be better off going towards hospitals or schools. You know, things that need sorting out now, in the present. God, I sound like a miserable bitch. Forget what I said, let's go to space!!! smile




very true that. i'd personally like to see military spending cuts cover those deficits.

stephen hawking has opined that humans likely have 1000 years more on planet earth before we exhaust our resources here. (based on what, i don't know. where did he get 1,000 years?).

however, based on extinction-level events such as yellowstone going boom, or more major asteroid strikes, it might not be a bad idea to have an alternate place to crash until life begins again on planet earth.

also, it would be great if we could mine asteroids and meteorites floating around out in space in the future. who knows what we might find???

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Reply #9 posted 11/29/16 5:11pm

morningsong

EmmaMcG said:

morningsong said:

Yeah, not only can't they hear you scream in space, ain't a porta potty in sight.





Well I don't know why NASA is even trying, they've just been told by the LA Times, iirc, that going to Mars is impossible for humans, but a trip to Titan would be better.

[Edited 11/29/16 11:02am]

I'm sure NASA would know more than the LA Times about the possibility of going to Mars... smile You do have to wonder though, why bother? Going to Mars or, indeed, Titan would be a great achievement but what's the point? Seems like a very costly venture for such a pointless trip. Maybe some of that money would be better off going towards hospitals or schools. You know, things that need sorting out now, in the present. God, I sound like a miserable bitch. Forget what I said, let's go to space!!! smile




I'm supposing the LA Times had some extra space to fill.

From what I understand, a ton of innovation have come from "conquering" space, that can be and have been used elsewhere. I mean if you can resolve something so major as say the water issue in a closed capsule for several months, that same innovation can be resourced, maybe, for water shortages on Earth. Dumb example; the grooves on a freeway off-ramp in the States, didn't come about because someone was thinking about how they could make driving safer, but came because NASA needed to figure out how to control the steering of the Space Shuttle when it landed and was slowing down, then *poof* eureka, the idea got applied in everyday normal life. Sounds so obvious but it wasn't. It's just how the human mind works, get it concentrating on something way out there and it comes up with things people never considered. Just sitting and only concentrating on a specific problem doesn't generate the best results.

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Reply #10 posted 11/29/16 6:35pm

morningsong

purplethunder3121 said:

This guy's working on it! smile

Related image



Poop pays.

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Reply #11 posted 11/30/16 12:15pm

morningsong

Now why did that scene of Matt Damon's dilemna pop into my head from The Martian?



They've got to save it if they need to plant potatoes.




I wasn't joking about there's money in poop. I was working at a convention here that was hosting a worldwide Waste Managment construction and management event. I had no idea just how big of a business it is, literally.

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Reply #12 posted 11/30/16 2:16pm

XxAxX

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morningsong said:

Now why did that scene of Matt Damon's dilemna pop into my head from The Martian?



They've got to save it if they need to plant potatoes.




I wasn't joking about there's money in poop. I was working at a convention here that was hosting a worldwide Waste Managment construction and management event. I had no idea just how big of a business it is, literally.

heh. the plumber came out to fix my constantly running toilet the other day and we got to talking about the space poop challenge.

along the way we both wondered why on earth we are still wasting fresh water to flush away our poo. such a waste if you'll pardon the pun.

in japan, in some of the much older sections of town, there was a poo truck that came to drain individual septic tanks, like garbage pickup in america. i wonder if they sold that to farmers?

imo that makes more sense than wasting clean water to flush.

someone needs to invent an affordable composting or incineration method for waste disposal imo

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Reply #13 posted 11/30/16 2:29pm

morningsong

XxAxX said:

morningsong said:

Now why did that scene of Matt Damon's dilemna pop into my head from The Martian?



They've got to save it if they need to plant potatoes.




I wasn't joking about there's money in poop. I was working at a convention here that was hosting a worldwide Waste Managment construction and management event. I had no idea just how big of a business it is, literally.

heh. the plumber came out to fix my constantly running toilet the other day and we got to talking about the space poop challenge.

along the way we both wondered why on earth we are still wasting fresh water to flush away our poo. such a waste if you'll pardon the pun.

in japan, in some of the much older sections of town, there was a poo truck that came to drain individual septic tanks, like garbage pickup in america. i wonder if they sold that to farmers?

imo that makes more sense than wasting clean water to flush.

someone needs to invent an affordable composting or incineration method for waste disposal imo



The concept of fresh running (moving, living) water is a very ancient concept. It's seems to be the best method so far of keeping the spread of disease down.

As far as the solidified by-product of waste, iirc, even local sewage treatment, after much processing end up with a type of fertilizer but i don't think it's used for food production. Well that's what I remember after visiting the local treatment plant a couple of decades age, things most definitely have changed.

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Reply #14 posted 11/30/16 2:47pm

RodeoSchro

Sounds like y'all want to be the Number 1 company in the Number 2 business.

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Reply #15 posted 11/30/16 2:51pm

purplethunder3
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RodeoSchro said:

Sounds like y'all want to be the Number 1 company in the Number 2 business.

razz lol

"Music gives a soul to the universe, wings to the mind, flight to the imagination and life to everything." --Plato

https://youtu.be/CVwv9LZMah0
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Reply #16 posted 11/30/16 3:00pm

morningsong

RodeoSchro said:

Sounds like y'all want to be the Number 1 company in the Number 2 business.




lol


Nah, I plan on being a long ways downwind as I watch what they come up with.


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Reply #17 posted 12/01/16 9:46am

XxAxX

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RodeoSchro said:

Sounds like y'all want to be the Number 1 company in the Number 2 business.



a while back here in Minnesota the Hmong population, refugees from Laos, began farming in small communities in and around town, growing and selling vegetables at the farmers' markets.

there was quite an uproar when it was discovered that they were using a traditional method of applying 'night soil' (human poop) to their crops.

night soil is a great fertilizer being organic and all, and it isn't inherently dangerous unless one eats unwashed produce riddled with e-coli and/or human parasites, but it made quite a stink at the time!

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Reply #18 posted 12/01/16 10:57am

morningsong

I'd still say no. Too risky. But on Mars, with no cows I guess the matt damon method is an option.

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Reply #19 posted 12/01/16 2:46pm

morningsong

Not much of a fuel source for such a mission, but I would think they could incinerate it somekind of way that isn't a fire hazard. I know they do not want to leave a trail of garbage behind them, no more than can be helped, especially the type of garbage that carries so many organisms, ie bacteria.

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Reply #20 posted 12/01/16 7:46pm

free2bfreeda

remember in the movie 'dune'?

The Fremen spend all time out of their sietch in a stillsuit, a special body-enclosing suit designed to collect and recycle all the moisture the body releases, from urine, feces and sweat, to the exhalation of water vapor in the breath. The special fabric is a micro-sandwich designed to dissipate heat and filter wastes while reclaiming moisture. The water is then held in catchpockets and made available to drink through a tube.

Stillsuit image

Image result for dune fremen suits

rolleyes one should remember not to let their mind wander while drinking their bodily processed water.

however "BAM," there's the space poop challenge answer from Freeda.

“Transracial is a term that has long since been defined as the adoption of a child that is of a different race than the adoptive parents,” : https://thinkprogress.org...fb6e18544a
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Reply #21 posted 12/02/16 6:57am

XxAxX

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free2bfreeda said:

remember in the movie 'dune'?

The Fremen spend all time out of their sietch in a stillsuit, a special body-enclosing suit designed to collect and recycle all the moisture the body releases, from urine, feces and sweat, to the exhalation of water vapor in the breath. The special fabric is a micro-sandwich designed to dissipate heat and filter wastes while reclaiming moisture. The water is then held in catchpockets and made available to drink through a tube.

Stillsuit image

Image result for dune fremen suits

rolleyes one should remember not to let their mind wander while drinking their bodily processed water.

however "BAM," there's the space poop challenge answer from Freeda.



i think NASA has heard of the stillsuit. wink frank dune's fictional description of the stillsuit is great, but NASA is looking for specific design ideas for specific conditions.

here are links to information which describes the dimensions and specifications of the astronauts' suits, as well as the zero gravity conditions the astonauts live in.


https://www.nasa.gov/audience/forstudents/5-8/features/nasa-knows/what-is-a-spacesuit-58.html

https://www.nasa.gov/centers/johnson/pdf/383443main_crew_escape_workbook.pdf

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Reply #22 posted 12/04/16 4:12am

Steadwood

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They should ask McDonalds, they've been making food outa shit for ages.



smile
guitar I have a firm grip on reality...Maybe just not this reality biggrin troll guitar


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Reply #23 posted 12/04/16 8:12am

XxAxX

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Steadwood said:

They should ask McDonalds, they've been making food outa shit for ages. smile



spit lol lol

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Reply #24 posted 12/07/16 5:18pm

morningsong

Interesting info starting at 4:53.

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Reply #25 posted 12/08/16 12:54pm

XxAxX

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morningsong said:

Interesting info starting at 4:53.



cool! thanks for posting

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