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Thread started 02/11/15 5:39am

databank

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Ain't (language question to native ENglish speakers)

Because I've heard it so many times in songs and movies I took the habit (purposedly) to replace any isn't/am not/are not by ain't and recently an Amercian told me this really sound like SOOOOO uneducated and uncivilized to American ears. I was surprised, I mean I knew it isn't proper English and in the movies it's clearly used by lower class people but I had no idea it sounded so bad to natives lol to me it was just more like wanna gonna etc.

Opinions?

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Reply #1 posted 02/11/15 6:08am

kitbradley

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I believe the word "ain't" originated from the South. It's a very common word in the English language but I think a lot of people still think if you use the word as part of your regular vocabulary, it shows you're uneducated or uncouth. Another southern term that comes to mind is "Ya'll", which Beyonce has made okay to use. I've heard a lot of celebs from the South as well as some very educated people use both words. I've never really had a problem with it. I don't recommend using them during a job interview, though. biggrin

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Reply #2 posted 02/11/15 6:21am

Shyra

kitbradley said:

I believe the word "ain't" originated from the South. It's a very common word in the English language but I think a lot of people still think if you use the word as part of your regular vocabulary, it shows you're uneducated or uncouth. Another southern term that comes to mind is "Ya'll", which Beyonce has made okay to use. I've heard a lot of celebs from the South as well as some very educated people use both words. I've never really had a problem with it. I don't recommend using them during a job interview, though. biggrin

dupe

[Edited 2/11/15 6:53am]

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Reply #3 posted 02/11/15 6:25am

Pokeno4Money

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There's a lot of words considered informal or slang that have become popular over the years. Sometimes they are appropriate, sometimes they are not ... it all depends on context. "Ain't" is one of them.

My advice to you regarding "ain't" is don't use it, because if using it becomes a habit then you will likely end up using it subconsciously when it's NOT appropriate. I assure you, in any professional setting you don't want to say that word or use it in correspondence such as letters and emails. Many white collar workers have been held back in their careers because they were unable to communicate professionally and effectively.

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Reply #4 posted 02/11/15 6:53am

Shyra

kitbradley said:

I believe the word "ain't" originated from the South. It's a very common word in the English language but I think a lot of people still think if you use the word as part of your regular vocabulary, it shows you're uneducated or uncouth. Another southern term that comes to mind is "Ya'll", which Beyonce has made okay to use. I've heard a lot of celebs from the South as well as some very educated people use both words. I've never really had a problem with it. I don't recommend using them during a job interview, though. biggrin

I think people use these terms in "casual" conversation. So called "educated people" know the correct grammar but use these words as a part of their vernacular; however, when speaking formally or in certain circles, the King's English is always appropriate, preferred, and necessary. I use both of these words in casual conversation, but I do know when not to use them.



And then there are words that I notice "my people" use all the time. Some of them are clearly uneducated and some are educated, but what bothers me is when I hear certain words mispronounced by TV personalities, news casters and DJ. For instance, a lot of black folks say "Valentime's Day." When I hear that, it makes me cringe because if just sounds so ignorant. Another is "chickenpops." And this one is just unforgivable, but I hear it all the time, especially by the so called "educated," when describing a situation between two people, e.g., “Her and me” or “Him and me.”




[Edited 2/11/15 6:54am]

[Edited 2/11/15 6:55am]

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Reply #5 posted 02/11/15 10:21am

RodeoSchro

Native Texan here. "Ain't" is not used in regular/polite conversation. It gives an uneducated vibe. It's only appropriate if it's used in a humorous context.

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Reply #6 posted 02/11/15 10:57am

PurpleJedi

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RodeoSchro said:

Native Texan here. "Ain't" is not used in regular/polite conversation. It gives an uneducated vibe. It's only appropriate if it's used in a humorous context.

yeahthat

At a PTA meeting recently, there was an "investment" company rep that gave a presentation.

She was dressed professionally, but the minute she opened her mouth, all sorts of cringe-worthy comments came spewing out...including "ain't" along with "they be..." and "we isn't...".

This, as she discussed how she financed her college tuition.


disbelief

By St. Boogar and all the saints at the backside door of Purgatory!
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Reply #7 posted 02/11/15 11:42am

JustErin

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Your American friend was right.

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Reply #8 posted 02/11/15 1:02pm

free2bfreeda

databank said:

Because I've heard it so many times in songs and movies I took the habit (purposedly) to replace any isn't/am not/are not by ain't and recently an Amercian told me this really sound like SOOOOO uneducated and uncivilized to American ears. I was surprised, I mean I knew it isn't proper English and in the movies it's clearly used by lower class people but I had no idea it sounded so bad to natives lol to me it was just more like wanna gonna etc.

Opinions?

me, i always look for the factual info for origins and definitions. (hope this helps)

i've used the word in my younger days, but now i find no need to fuse the words "am not" or "is not" in to the word "ain't."

however imo usage of the word does not mean the person using it is uneducated. it's a slang term imo. just a verbal short cut to get a point across. like= "aint his biznezz" instead of "it isn't his busness. or "ain't that the truth" instead of "i think that's the truth" and so on.

ain't - wikipedia

: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ain%27t

excerpt:

Ain't has been called "the most stigmatized word in the language,"[24] as well as "the most powerful social marker" in English. It is a prominent example in English of a shibboleth – a word used to determine inclusion in, or exclusion from, a group.[24]

Historically, this was not the case. For most of its history, ain't was acceptable across many social and regional contexts. Throughout the 17th, 18th, and 19th centuries, ain't and its predecessors were part of normal usage for both educated and uneducated English speakers, and was found in the correspondence and fiction of, among others, Jonathan Swift, Lord Byron, Henry Fielding, and George Eliot.[26] For Victorian English novelists William Makepeace Thackeray and Anthony Trollope, the educated and upper classes in 19th century England could use ain't freely, but in familiar speech only.[27] Ain't continued to be used without restraint by many upper middle class speakers in southern England into the beginning of the 20th century.[28][29]

Ain't was a prominent target of early prescriptivist writers. In the 18th and early 19th centuries, some writers began to propound the need to establish a "pure" or "correct" form of English.[30] Contractions in general were disapproved of, but ain't and its variants were seen as particularly "vulgar."[24] This push for "correctness" was driven mainly by the middle class, which led to an incongruous situation in which non-standard constructions continued to be used by both lower and upper classes, but not by the middle class.[27][31] The reason for the strength of the prescription against ain't is not entirely clear.

The strong prescription against ain't in standard English has led to many misconceptions, often expressed jocularly (or ironically), as "ain't ain't a word" or "ain't ain't in the dictionary."[32] Ain't is listed in most dictionaries, including the Oxford English Dictionary[33] and Merriam-Webster.[34] However, Oxford states "it does not form part of standard English and should never be used in formal or written contexts,"[33] and Merriam-Webster states it is "widely disapproved as non-standard and more common in the habitual speech of the less educated".

“Transracial is a term that has long since been defined as the adoption of a child that is of a different race than the adoptive parents,” : https://thinkprogress.org...fb6e18544a
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Reply #9 posted 02/11/15 1:44pm

purplethunder3
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I hate to be the one to break the news, but "ain't" has been added to official dictionaries like Merriam-Webster... lol

"Music gives a soul to the universe, wings to the mind, flight to the imagination and life to everything." --Plato

https://youtu.be/CVwv9LZMah0
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Reply #10 posted 02/11/15 1:50pm

Pokeno4Money

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All this talk about the origin of the word got me interested enough to look up the definition:

http://www.merriam-webste...ry/ain%27t

3 : do not : does not : did not —used in some varieties of Black English



Forgive my ignorance, but what the hell is "Black English"??

I do remember the first time I heard the word was when someone mentioned the song Ain't Misbehavin', that song went back to the 1920's.

"Never let nasty stalkers disrespect you. They start shit, you finish it. Go down to their level, that's the only way they'll understand. You have to handle things yourself."
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Reply #11 posted 02/11/15 1:54pm

kitbradley

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Shyra said:

kitbradley said:

I believe the word "ain't" originated from the South. It's a very common word in the English language but I think a lot of people still think if you use the word as part of your regular vocabulary, it shows you're uneducated or uncouth. Another southern term that comes to mind is "Ya'll", which Beyonce has made okay to use. I've heard a lot of celebs from the South as well as some very educated people use both words. I've never really had a problem with it. I don't recommend using them during a job interview, though. biggrin

I think people use these terms in "casual" conversation. So called "educated people" know the correct grammar but use these words as a part of their vernacular; however, when speaking formally or in certain circles, the King's English is always appropriate, preferred, and necessary. I use both of these words in casual conversation, but I do know when not to use them.



And then there are words that I notice "my people" use all the time. Some of them are clearly uneducated and some are educated, but what bothers me is when I hear certain words mispronounced by TV personalities, news casters and DJ. For instance, a lot of black folks say "Valentime's Day." When I hear that, it makes me cringe because if just sounds so ignorant. Another is "chickenpops." And this one is just unforgivable, but I hear it all the time, especially by the so called "educated," when describing a situation between two people, e.g., “Her and me” or “Him and me.”




[Edited 2/11/15 6:54am]

[Edited 2/11/15 6:55am]

What makes me cringe is when I hear many black people pronounce the word "looked" as "looked-ed". I had never even heard anyone pronounce the word like that until the 90's. It drives me crazy! I always correct someone when I hear them say that. biggrin

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Reply #12 posted 02/11/15 8:58pm

KingBAD

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ain't nothin but somethin to do...

i am KING BAD!!!
you are NOT...
evilking
STOP ME IF YOU HEARD THIS BEFORE...
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Reply #13 posted 02/11/15 10:28pm

KoolEaze

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Your friend is right but him being a native speaker also plays a huge part. If you were an American,too, then your use of "ain´t" wouldn´t sound as bad to him as it does when he hears it from a non-native speaker. Same with "gonna" "wanna" and "he don´t , she don´t ".

Not that these words sound more educated when native speakers use them (they don´t), but when a non-native speaker uses them it just sounds a bit off to native speakers´ ears.

This is the case with most languages.

And then there are differences from one country to another. For instance the past tense form of "got", i.e "gotten", is perfectly acceptable to Americans and used to be perfectly acceptable in England, too. But these days it sounds terrible to British ears whereas Americans have kept that past form "gotten" and still use it. Most English folks roll their eyes when they hear it.

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Reply #14 posted 02/11/15 10:57pm

TD3

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PurpleJedi said:

RodeoSchro said:

Native Texan here. "Ain't" is not used in regular/polite conversation. It gives an uneducated vibe. It's only appropriate if it's used in a humorous context.

yeahthat

At a PTA meeting recently, there was an "investment" company rep that gave a presentation.

She was dressed professionally, but the minute she opened her mouth, all sorts of cringe-worthy comments came spewing out...including "ain't" along with "they be..." and "we isn't...".

This, as she discussed how she financed her college tuition.


disbelief

The newly elected Governor elected Bruce Rauner gave his State of The State speech a couple of weeks ago. To my surprise, Governor Rauner had picked up a a "Southern" accent! Some words became drawn out and Ya'll and other slang terms had creeped into his vocabulary. lol

===============================================

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Reply #15 posted 02/11/15 11:07pm

TD3

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Shyra said:

kitbradley said:

I believe the word "ain't" originated from the South. It's a very common word in the English language but I think a lot of people still think if you use the word as part of your regular vocabulary, it shows you're uneducated or uncouth. Another southern term that comes to mind is "Ya'll", which Beyonce has made okay to use. I've heard a lot of celebs from the South as well as some very educated people use both words. I've never really had a problem with it. I don't recommend using them during a job interview, though. biggrin

I think people use these terms in "casual" conversation. So called "educated people" know the correct grammar but use these words as a part of their vernacular; however, when speaking formally or in certain circles, the King's English is always appropriate, preferred, and necessary. I use both of these words in casual conversation, but I do know when not to use them.



And then there are words that I notice "my people" use all the time. Some of them are clearly uneducated and some are educated, but what bothers me is when I hear certain words mispronounced by TV personalities, news casters and DJ. For instance, a lot of black folks say "Valentime's Day." When I hear that, it makes me cringe because if just sounds so ignorant. Another is "chickenpops." And this one is just unforgivable, but I hear it all the time, especially by the so called "educated," when describing a situation between two people, e.g., “Her and me” or “Him and me.”

Thank you. Black diction and/or slang has been apart of our culture; I'm always amazed how much of our slang are co-opted by mainstream media. Most black people know the difference and can flip the script when needed... it was and I think still is a cultural necessity.

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Reply #16 posted 02/12/15 1:36am

free2bfreeda

Pokeno4Money said:

All this talk about the origin of the word got me interested enough to look up the definition:

http://www.merriam-webste...ry/ain%27t

3 : do not : does not : did not —used in some varieties of Black English



Forgive my ignorance, but what the hell is "Black English"??

I do remember the first time I heard the word was when someone mentioned the song Ain't Misbehavin', that song went back to the 1920's.

some would say "black english" is more or less a dialect, aka; regional usage of (in this case) the english language. or better yet - regional speach patterns or accents.

if you travel throughout the u s you will hear different dialects. (speech patterns)

for example

1. new york - very distinctive accents

2. new england - north eastern

3. w virginia - appalaclchian influenced speech pattern

4. southern america - several variations "Southern dialects originated in large part from immigrants from the British Isles who moved to the South in the 17th and 18th centuries."

note: many african americans migrated from the south and brought the influcences of english spoken in south.

(also note: not all blacks use the same varieties of the english language.)

so i guess you can look up the word "black english" and find several takes.

try:

African American Vernacular English

: http://en.wikipedia.org/w...ar_English

maybe you might find an answer to your question as follows:

you said:

Forgive my ignorance, but what the hell is "Black English"??


[Edited 2/12/15 1:45am]

“Transracial is a term that has long since been defined as the adoption of a child that is of a different race than the adoptive parents,” : https://thinkprogress.org...fb6e18544a
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Reply #17 posted 02/12/15 6:31am

kitbradley

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Pokeno4Money said:


Forgive my ignorance, but what the hell is "Black English"??

Ain't you ever heard of Ebonics??? lol

"It's not nice to fuck with K.B.! All you haters will see!" - Kitbradley
"The only true wisdom is knowing you know nothing." - Socrates
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Reply #18 posted 02/12/15 7:01am

free2bfreeda

kitbradley said:

Pokeno4Money said:


Forgive my ignorance, but what the hell is "Black English"??

Ain't you ever heard of Ebonics??? lol

Ebonics

Ebonics was originally coined to refer to the language of the African Diaspora. Since the mid-1990s, it has been used colloquially to refer to a distinctive lect, or variety, of English spoken by African Americans, which most linguists refer to as African American Vernacular English.

Ebonics may also refer to:

  • Oakland Ebonics controversy, generated by the recognition in December 1996 by the Oakland, California school board of "Ebonics" (i.e. African-American Vernacular English) as a distinct language


not all african americans in academic circles supported "eubonics" at the time of it's conception.

need anyone be reminded:

all african americans do not think alike, nor use the same english language venacular.

same with whites and other races. (not all use the same english language venacular).

until we/or the many stop thinking when an idea or a mindset is set forth by an individual or individuals of a certain race represents the whole, we will never dissipate the racist mindset.

“Transracial is a term that has long since been defined as the adoption of a child that is of a different race than the adoptive parents,” : https://thinkprogress.org...fb6e18544a
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Reply #19 posted 02/12/15 7:23am

kpowers

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I really have no problem with the word. I have heard people say it from different area's of the country and from different ethnic backgrounds.

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Reply #20 posted 02/12/15 12:21pm

PurpleJedi

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TD3 said:

PurpleJedi said:

yeahthat

At a PTA meeting recently, there was an "investment" company rep that gave a presentation.

She was dressed professionally, but the minute she opened her mouth, all sorts of cringe-worthy comments came spewing out...including "ain't" along with "they be..." and "we isn't...".

This, as she discussed how she financed her college tuition.


disbelief

The newly elected Governor elected Bruce Rauner gave his State of The State speech a couple of weeks ago. To my surprise, Governor Rauner had picked up a a "Southern" accent! Some words became drawn out and Ya'll and other slang terms had creeped into his vocabulary. lol

===============================================


lol

By St. Boogar and all the saints at the backside door of Purgatory!
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Reply #21 posted 02/12/15 2:21pm

JoeTyler

I still remember my high school teacher giving an "F" to those who used the n' thing in exams (you know, cryin', goin', etc); I shit you not...

tinkerbell
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Reply #22 posted 02/12/15 3:04pm

Pokeno4Money

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kitbradley said:

Pokeno4Money said:


Forgive my ignorance, but what the hell is "Black English"??

Ain't you ever heard of Ebonics??? lol

I have, but I thought it was a derogatory term for those who don't speak proper English? Every African American that I know uses the same proper English as President Obama (better than George Bush's lol ), so this idea of a separate language for black people is foreign to me. We are not talking about "slang", are we?

I just don't get it. Why create a separate language, especially when most people of color (I think) want to be treated the same as everyone else? How is America ever going to turn into the big melting pot it's supposed to be if groups of people create barriers such as "Black English" to separate themselves from the rest of society? Isn't it bad enough we've already got millions living in America who don't speak any English at all?

"Never let nasty stalkers disrespect you. They start shit, you finish it. Go down to their level, that's the only way they'll understand. You have to handle things yourself."
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Reply #23 posted 02/13/15 5:59am

KingBAD

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balck english is somethin white folks came up with...

i speak fluent nigga and have yet to find somebody

that speaks ebonics OR black english AND i'm damn near sixty

i am KING BAD!!!
you are NOT...
evilking
STOP ME IF YOU HEARD THIS BEFORE...
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Reply #24 posted 02/13/15 11:22am

SquirrelMeat

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Pokeno4Money said:

kitbradley said:

Ain't you ever heard of Ebonics??? lol

I have, but I thought it was a derogatory term for those who don't speak proper English? Every African American that I know uses the same proper English as President Obama (better than George Bush's lol ), so this idea of a separate language for black people is foreign to me. We are not talking about "slang", are we?

I just don't get it. Why create a separate language, especially when most people of color (I think) want to be treated the same as everyone else? How is America ever going to turn into the big melting pot it's supposed to be if groups of people create barriers such as "Black English" to separate themselves from the rest of society? Isn't it bad enough we've already got millions living in America who don't speak any English at all?



LOL. I notice no one is looking for the history of English in the obvious place. England.



Ain't or An't was being used in England in the 17th century, long before popping up in the States in the 18th century.

There are a lot of people refering to proper English, when they mean U.S. English.

.
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Reply #25 posted 02/13/15 5:21pm

Shyra

kitbradley said:

Shyra said:

I think people use these terms in "casual" conversation. So called "educated people" know the correct grammar but use these words as a part of their vernacular; however, when speaking formally or in certain circles, the King's English is always appropriate, preferred, and necessary. I use both of these words in casual conversation, but I do know when not to use them.



And then there are words that I notice "my people" use all the time. Some of them are clearly uneducated and some are educated, but what bothers me is when I hear certain words mispronounced by TV personalities, news casters and DJ. For instance, a lot of black folks say "Valentime's Day." When I hear that, it makes me cringe because if just sounds so ignorant. Another is "chickenpops." And this one is just unforgivable, but I hear it all the time, especially by the so called "educated," when describing a situation between two people, e.g., “Her and me” or “Him and me.”




[Edited 2/11/15 6:54am]

[Edited 2/11/15 6:55am]

What makes me cringe is when I hear many black people pronounce the word "looked" as "looked-ed". I had never even heard anyone pronounce the word like that until the 90's. It drives me crazy! I always correct someone when I hear them say that. biggrin


I used to work with a woman who would say things like, "I got my hair did." or "Unlessen you gonna do something right, don't do it at all." I would try to correct her and and tell her there was no such word as "unlessen", but she would swear I didn't know what I was talking about. I finally just gave up and let her continue to embarrass herself and sound like an uneducated "around the way girl." headache bawl beatdeadhorse

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Reply #26 posted 02/13/15 6:05pm

free2bfreeda

KingBAD said:

balck english is somethin white folks came up with...

i speak fluent nigga and have yet to find somebody

that speaks ebonics OR black english AND i'm damn near sixty

rolling on the floor laughing emoticon you tho crazee, and your honesty is unparallelled.

“Transracial is a term that has long since been defined as the adoption of a child that is of a different race than the adoptive parents,” : https://thinkprogress.org...fb6e18544a
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Reply #27 posted 02/13/15 6:20pm

free2bfreeda

kpowers said:

I really have no problem with the word. I have heard people say it from different area's of the country and from different ethnic backgrounds.

and so it should be.

so i will go on to post these lyrics as sung by Ms Billie Holiday

There ain't nothin' I can do or nothin' I can say
That folks don't criticize me but I'm going to do
Just as I want to anyway
And don't care just what people say

If I should take a notion, to jump into the ocean


Ain't nobody's business if I do
If I go to church on Sunday, then cabaret all day Monday
Ain't nobody's business if I do

If my man ain't got no money and I say, "Take all of mine, honey"
Ain't nobody's business if I do
If I give him my last nickel and it leaves me in a pickle
Ain't nobody's business if I do


etc........

or


If it ain't broke, don't fix it

Meaning

If something is working adequately well, leave it alone.

(ain't that the truth cool )

“Transracial is a term that has long since been defined as the adoption of a child that is of a different race than the adoptive parents,” : https://thinkprogress.org...fb6e18544a
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Reply #28 posted 02/13/15 7:47pm

babynoz

SquirrelMeat said:



LOL. I notice no one is looking for the history of English in the obvious place. England.



Ain't or An't was being used in England in the 17th century, long before popping up in the States in the 18th century.

There are a lot of people refering to proper English, when they mean U.S. English.



Thank you so much. I was getting frustrated reading all of the misinformation. disbelief

Prince, in you I found a kindred spirit...Rest In Paradise.
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Reply #29 posted 02/13/15 11:01pm

purplethunder3
121

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Ain't no info like misinfo.

"Music gives a soul to the universe, wings to the mind, flight to the imagination and life to everything." --Plato

https://youtu.be/CVwv9LZMah0
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