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Thread started 10/26/14 3:02am

IheartCali

2nd generation should learn to speak their parents' language just as well as English.

Hi, I want to discuss this because all second generation immigrants of the US I have encountered so far do not speak their parents language fluently, and they say to me "you are lucky you speak the same language as your parents, I never get to have really deep conversations with my parents because of the language barrier" And yet they still don't take lessons or take time to study to be more fluent in their parents' language. Why say that you are sad because you don't speak the same language as your parents, and NOT try your hardest to learn the language more in a in-depth way? (most of the ones I met have speaking level of a 6 year old). Do it while your parents are alive..

Is it laziness? Or is it something more deeper than that. Perhaps 2nd generation people subconsciously don't want to be fluent in their parents' mother language because they grew up being taught and guided that they are AMERICANS, and Americans speak English (-by their immigrant parents, ironically.)

[Edited 10/26/14 3:07am]

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Reply #1 posted 10/26/14 3:13am

JoeTyler

If 2n generation folks are ignoring their parents' language just because of some misplaced inferiority complex, then I pity them, their (lack of) strenght of character and their poor vision, since many immigrants speak Spanish and Chinese, hardly irrelevant languages, right?

tinkerbell
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Reply #2 posted 10/26/14 6:51am

KingBAD

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in most of the cases i've come in contact with, its the parents who don't want the kids speakin their native tounge. those who say they wish they could speak it must be in their thirties and stayed away from home for years. those i know who are close to their families don't seem to have that prollum.

most folks speak the lancuages they hear on a daily basis, as a matter of fact they tend to speak english and the language of their parents interchangably...

i am KING BAD!!!
you are NOT...
evilking
STOP ME IF YOU HEARD THIS BEFORE...
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Reply #3 posted 10/26/14 5:30pm

ZombieKitten

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I left my country at age 18 months. I spoke my mother tongue (plus 2 other languages) until I was primary school. For some reason my parents didn't keep speaking it at home any more, so I didn't keep it up. The second language either. So I have english, some swedish and a little german. He's sitting right over there.

I find though that if I'm in sweden or a german speaking country it all comes rushing back. Also watching movies and reading in those languages really helps expand my vocabulary.

I'm the mistake you wanna make
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Reply #4 posted 10/26/14 5:35pm

MoBettaBliss

IheartCali said:

Hi, I want to discuss this because all second generation immigrants of the US I have encountered so far do not speak their parents language fluently, and they say to me "you are lucky you speak the same language as your parents, I never get to have really deep conversations with my parents because of the language barrier" And yet they still don't take lessons or take time to study to be more fluent in their parents' language. Why say that you are sad because you don't speak the same language as your parents, and NOT try your hardest to learn the language more in a in-depth way? (most of the ones I met have speaking level of a 6 year old). Do it while your parents are alive..

Is it laziness? Or is it something more deeper than that. Perhaps 2nd generation people subconsciously don't want to be fluent in their parents' mother language because they grew up being taught and guided that they are AMERICANS, and Americans speak English (-by their immigrant parents, ironically.)

[Edited 10/26/14 3:07am]



i'm a bit confused... if the parents are now in an english speaking country, and they can't have a deep conversation with their son or daughter because of a language barrier, why wouldn't the parents learn to speak english fluently?

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Reply #5 posted 10/26/14 6:29pm

PurpleJedi

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It's the natural order of things for the most part.

My kids are 2nd generation - both myself and my ex are 1st gen Hispanics.

My parents and my ex's folks are native Spanish-speakers and it came naturally to them to speak Spanish to their children, so that technically English was my second language. HOWEVER, being born & raised in the USA, both my ex & myself are 100% immersed in American culture & its language. I do not THINK in Spanish, I think in English. Same with the ex. When I speak to my brother, when she speaks to her sister, and when we'd speak to each other - when we COMMUNICATED naturally - it was done in English.

So when it came to my kids...even though it's easy to say; "I'm going to teach them Spanish", the reality is much more difficult. There has to be some planning and dedication to get your kids speaking the "native tongue". MOST of the 2nd gen kids that I know which managed to keep the native tongue did so because they had their GRANDPARENTS involved in their lives. My brother lived with my parents, and as a result, both of my nieces are fluent in Spanish. Not because of my brother or his wife, but because of my parents.

There are multi-lingual parents out there who manage to teach their children 2 or 3 different languages, and I am 100% jealous. My kids are now in a school district that is 70% Latino, and my 2 younger ones chastize me all the time for not teaching them Spanish!!!!!!
boxed

My oldest has no interest in Spanish. None. In Middle School he took Italian and LOVED IT!!!
faint

By St. Boogar and all the saints at the backside door of Purgatory!
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Reply #6 posted 10/26/14 10:35pm

jon1967

Whoa cool this threads in english
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Reply #7 posted 10/27/14 8:56am

JoeTyler

jon1967 said:

Whoa cool this threads in english

irónico, verdad?

tinkerbell
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Reply #8 posted 10/27/14 3:36pm

jon1967

Im entediado com o Príncipe

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Reply #9 posted 10/27/14 5:22pm

IheartCali

MoBettaBliss said:

IheartCali said:

Hi, I want to discuss this because all second generation immigrants of the US I have encountered so far do not speak their parents language fluently, and they say to me "you are lucky you speak the same language as your parents, I never get to have really deep conversations with my parents because of the language barrier" And yet they still don't take lessons or take time to study to be more fluent in their parents' language. Why say that you are sad because you don't speak the same language as your parents, and NOT try your hardest to learn the language more in a in-depth way? (most of the ones I met have speaking level of a 6 year old). Do it while your parents are alive..

Is it laziness? Or is it something more deeper than that. Perhaps 2nd generation people subconsciously don't want to be fluent in their parents' mother language because they grew up being taught and guided that they are AMERICANS, and Americans speak English (-by their immigrant parents, ironically.)

[Edited 10/26/14 3:07am]



i'm a bit confused... if the parents are now in an english speaking country, and they can't have a deep conversation with their son or daughter because of a language barrier, why wouldn't the parents learn to speak english fluently?

That's only logical if you think in order to live in America, you have to speak English, which has not been true for centuries. The 1st generation immigrants are usually people who made it in the US without speaking English fluently by either getting a profession that doesn't require a lot of speaking, or living in a certain ethinic town.

It's not always the case but from what I've seen, the majority of 2nd generation immigrants have "better" lives than the 1st generation. While 1st generation immigrants are working 12 hours a day 7 days a week (some of them are blue collar workers too), their kids, the 2nd generation get to have the luxury of focusing their time to study, going to college and eventually gettting a better job. So wouldn't they have more time to learn a language than their parents?

Also, if the 2nd generation immigrants had your attitude towards their parents, even if they mean well, I would still find that very rude and ungrateful. Think about a 2nd generation immigrant telling their parents, "You're the one who came to America, so you're the one who should learn English, if you wanna talk to me" - The Korean in me would want to slap him/her! lol

No 2nd generation immigrants, who understand the sacrifice and the concept behind "American Dream" of their parents would say this though...I assume.

[Edited 10/27/14 17:36pm]

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Reply #10 posted 10/27/14 5:35pm

IheartCali

PurpleJedi said:

It's the natural order of things for the most part.

My kids are 2nd generation - both myself and my ex are 1st gen Hispanics.

My parents and my ex's folks are native Spanish-speakers and it came naturally to them to speak Spanish to their children, so that technically English was my second language. HOWEVER, being born & raised in the USA, both my ex & myself are 100% immersed in American culture & its language. I do not THINK in Spanish, I think in English. Same with the ex. When I speak to my brother, when she speaks to her sister, and when we'd speak to each other - when we COMMUNICATED naturally - it was done in English.

So when it came to my kids...even though it's easy to say; "I'm going to teach them Spanish", the reality is much more difficult. There has to be some planning and dedication to get your kids speaking the "native tongue". MOST of the 2nd gen kids that I know which managed to keep the native tongue did so because they had their GRANDPARENTS involved in their lives. My brother lived with my parents, and as a result, both of my nieces are fluent in Spanish. Not because of my brother or his wife, but because of my parents.

There are multi-lingual parents out there who manage to teach their children 2 or 3 different languages, and I am 100% jealous. My kids are now in a school district that is 70% Latino, and my 2 younger ones chastize me all the time for not teaching them Spanish!!!!!!
boxed

My oldest has no interest in Spanish. None. In Middle School he took Italian and LOVED IT!!!
faint

thanks for your story. But I think in your case, if you were born and raised in America, you would techinically be considered 2nd generation...(but if your parents are not US citizens, you could be considered 1.5 generation perhaps) I am curious though, how would you rate your Spanish fluency? Do you have any trouble communicating with your parents when it's about deeper issues or it requires techinical terms?

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Reply #11 posted 10/29/14 9:31am

PurpleJedi

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IheartCali said:

PurpleJedi said:

It's the natural order of things for the most part.

My kids are 2nd generation - both myself and my ex are 1st gen Hispanics.

My parents and my ex's folks are native Spanish-speakers and it came naturally to them to speak Spanish to their children, so that technically English was my second language. HOWEVER, being born & raised in the USA, both my ex & myself are 100% immersed in American culture & its language. I do not THINK in Spanish, I think in English. Same with the ex. When I speak to my brother, when she speaks to her sister, and when we'd speak to each other - when we COMMUNICATED naturally - it was done in English.

So when it came to my kids...even though it's easy to say; "I'm going to teach them Spanish", the reality is much more difficult. There has to be some planning and dedication to get your kids speaking the "native tongue". MOST of the 2nd gen kids that I know which managed to keep the native tongue did so because they had their GRANDPARENTS involved in their lives. My brother lived with my parents, and as a result, both of my nieces are fluent in Spanish. Not because of my brother or his wife, but because of my parents.

There are multi-lingual parents out there who manage to teach their children 2 or 3 different languages, and I am 100% jealous. My kids are now in a school district that is 70% Latino, and my 2 younger ones chastize me all the time for not teaching them Spanish!!!!!!
boxed

My oldest has no interest in Spanish. None. In Middle School he took Italian and LOVED IT!!!
faint

thanks for your story. But I think in your case, if you were born and raised in America, you would techinically be considered 2nd generation...(but if your parents are not US citizens, you could be considered 1.5 generation perhaps) I am curious though, how would you rate your Spanish fluency? Do you have any trouble communicating with your parents when it's about deeper issues or it requires techinical terms?


hmmm

So then I misunderstood the OP.

Personally, I don't know of ANY children of 1st-generation immigrants who don't speak their parents' language.
Could it be a regional thing perhaps?

I see the drop-off happening with the children of my generation (the 1.5's as you put it).

...And I am 100% fluent...speak/read/write.

By St. Boogar and all the saints at the backside door of Purgatory!
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Reply #12 posted 10/29/14 10:49am

Genesia

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IheartCali said:

PurpleJedi said:

It's the natural order of things for the most part.

My kids are 2nd generation - both myself and my ex are 1st gen Hispanics.

My parents and my ex's folks are native Spanish-speakers and it came naturally to them to speak Spanish to their children, so that technically English was my second language. HOWEVER, being born & raised in the USA, both my ex & myself are 100% immersed in American culture & its language. I do not THINK in Spanish, I think in English. Same with the ex. When I speak to my brother, when she speaks to her sister, and when we'd speak to each other - when we COMMUNICATED naturally - it was done in English.

So when it came to my kids...even though it's easy to say; "I'm going to teach them Spanish", the reality is much more difficult. There has to be some planning and dedication to get your kids speaking the "native tongue". MOST of the 2nd gen kids that I know which managed to keep the native tongue did so because they had their GRANDPARENTS involved in their lives. My brother lived with my parents, and as a result, both of my nieces are fluent in Spanish. Not because of my brother or his wife, but because of my parents.

There are multi-lingual parents out there who manage to teach their children 2 or 3 different languages, and I am 100% jealous. My kids are now in a school district that is 70% Latino, and my 2 younger ones chastize me all the time for not teaching them Spanish!!!!!!
boxed

My oldest has no interest in Spanish. None. In Middle School he took Italian and LOVED IT!!!
faint

thanks for your story. But I think in your case, if you were born and raised in America, you would techinically be considered 2nd generation...(but if your parents are not US citizens, you could be considered 1.5 generation perhaps) I am curious though, how would you rate your Spanish fluency? Do you have any trouble communicating with your parents when it's about deeper issues or it requires techinical terms?


No. "First generation" refers to the first generation born in the United States.

In my own family, my father's paternal grandparents came to the US (from Germany) in 1875. They already had children who'd been born in Germany, but my grandfather was born in the United States. So they had a "mixed" generation.

I don't know whether my grandfather spoke much German. I'm sure he must have, but I don't remember him speaking much, at all. (He was a very quiet man.)

The really fun part of that side of the family is that, although my grandfather was a first-generation American, all the ancestors of my grandmother (his wife) had been in America since the 1600s (including some who actually came over on the Mayflower).


Only in America!

[Edited 10/29/14 10:49am]

We don’t mourn artists because we knew them. We mourn them because they helped us know ourselves.
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Reply #13 posted 10/29/14 2:01pm

MoBettaBliss

IheartCali said:

MoBettaBliss said:



i'm a bit confused... if the parents are now in an english speaking country, and they can't have a deep conversation with their son or daughter because of a language barrier, why wouldn't the parents learn to speak english fluently?

That's only logical if you think in order to live in America, you have to speak English, which has not been true for centuries. The 1st generation immigrants are usually people who made it in the US without speaking English fluently by either getting a profession that doesn't require a lot of speaking, or living in a certain ethinic town.

It's not always the case but from what I've seen, the majority of 2nd generation immigrants have "better" lives than the 1st generation. While 1st generation immigrants are working 12 hours a day 7 days a week (some of them are blue collar workers too), their kids, the 2nd generation get to have the luxury of focusing their time to study, going to college and eventually gettting a better job. So wouldn't they have more time to learn a language than their parents?

Also, if the 2nd generation immigrants had your attitude towards their parents, even if they mean well, I would still find that very rude and ungrateful. Think about a 2nd generation immigrant telling their parents, "You're the one who came to America, so you're the one who should learn English, if you wanna talk to me" - The Korean in me would want to slap him/her! lol

No 2nd generation immigrants, who understand the sacrifice and the concept behind "American Dream" of their parents would say this though...I assume.

[Edited 10/27/14 17:36pm]


i don't disagree with anything you say

but as a parent, if i was unable to have a deep conversation with my son due to a language barrier, i'd do everything in my power to remedy that

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Reply #14 posted 10/29/14 3:11pm

IheartCali

Genesia said:

IheartCali said:

thanks for your story. But I think in your case, if you were born and raised in America, you would techinically be considered 2nd generation...(but if your parents are not US citizens, you could be considered 1.5 generation perhaps) I am curious though, how would you rate your Spanish fluency? Do you have any trouble communicating with your parents when it's about deeper issues or it requires techinical terms?


No. "First generation" refers to the first generation born in the United States.

In my own family, my father's paternal grandparents came to the US (from Germany) in 1875. They already had children who'd been born in Germany, but my grandfather was born in the United States. So they had a "mixed" generation.

I don't know whether my grandfather spoke much German. I'm sure he must have, but I don't remember him speaking much, at all. (He was a very quiet man.)

The really fun part of that side of the family is that, although my grandfather was a first-generation American, all the ancestors of my grandmother (his wife) had been in America since the 1600s (including some who actually came over on the Mayflower).


Only in America!

[Edited 10/29/14 10:49am]

That's quite interesting, so do you stil have cousins or famiy members who speak German as first language? And I apologize for not being clear, when I said "First Generation" in all of my posts, I was talking about "First Generation Immigrants", not "First Generation American". So with purplejedi, because he was born in America, I figured his parents had moved to the States and obtained citizenship before having him, which makes them first generation immigrants and purplejedi second generation immigrant.

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Reply #15 posted 10/29/14 8:09pm

morningsong

JoeTyler said:

If 2n generation folks are ignoring their parents' language just because of some misplaced inferiority complex, then I pity them, their (lack of) strenght of character and their poor vision, since many immigrants speak Spanish and Chinese, hardly irrelevant languages, right?



I'm trying to figure out why its an inferiority complex? Why not it be just something people do? Like maybe its just normal human behavior.
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Reply #16 posted 10/30/14 6:54am

Genesia

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IheartCali said:

Genesia said:


No. "First generation" refers to the first generation born in the United States.

In my own family, my father's paternal grandparents came to the US (from Germany) in 1875. They already had children who'd been born in Germany, but my grandfather was born in the United States. So they had a "mixed" generation.

I don't know whether my grandfather spoke much German. I'm sure he must have, but I don't remember him speaking much, at all. (He was a very quiet man.)

The really fun part of that side of the family is that, although my grandfather was a first-generation American, all the ancestors of my grandmother (his wife) had been in America since the 1600s (including some who actually came over on the Mayflower).


Only in America!

[Edited 10/29/14 10:49am]

That's quite interesting, so do you stil have cousins or famiy members who speak German as first language? And I apologize for not being clear, when I said "First Generation" in all of my posts, I was talking about "First Generation Immigrants", not "First Generation American". So with purplejedi, because he was born in America, I figured his parents had moved to the States and obtained citizenship before having him, which makes them first generation immigrants and purplejedi second generation immigrant.


We don't talk about generations of immigrants. We talk about generations that the family has been in the United States. Purplejedi is not an immigrant because he was born in the United States. He is a first-generation American. His parents are immigrants, regardless of whether they obtained citizenship, because they were born elsewhere.

No one in my family speaks German anymore. My grandparents were older when my dad was born and he was an only child, so I have no first cousins on that side of the family. My dad does not speak German. And on my mother's side (also predominantly German), she is at least third generation American on both sides, so no one speaks German there either.

In the olden days, people assimilated - no ifs, ands, or buts. That meant learning English as quickly as possible and making it the "family language."

[Edited 10/30/14 6:54am]

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Reply #17 posted 10/30/14 7:01am

JoeTyler

christ, I'm so glad I learned spanish thanks to the (maternal) family of my dad (RIP pray), and I TOTALLY REGRET that I didn't (couldn't) learn french (mom and her family are francophone belgians, but she REFUSED to talk to me or my sisters in french back when we were babies-toddlers), to this day I still torment her about that mistake lol

god, I could/should be speaking in english, spanish and french by now sigh


tinkerbell
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Reply #18 posted 10/30/14 7:01am

PurpleJedi

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IheartCali said:

Genesia said:


No. "First generation" refers to the first generation born in the United States.

In my own family, my father's paternal grandparents came to the US (from Germany) in 1875. They already had children who'd been born in Germany, but my grandfather was born in the United States. So they had a "mixed" generation.

I don't know whether my grandfather spoke much German. I'm sure he must have, but I don't remember him speaking much, at all. (He was a very quiet man.)

The really fun part of that side of the family is that, although my grandfather was a first-generation American, all the ancestors of my grandmother (his wife) had been in America since the 1600s (including some who actually came over on the Mayflower).


Only in America!

[Edited 10/29/14 10:49am]

That's quite interesting, so do you stil have cousins or famiy members who speak German as first language? And I apologize for not being clear, when I said "First Generation" in all of my posts, I was talking about "First Generation Immigrants", not "First Generation American". So with purplejedi, because he was born in America, I figured his parents had moved to the States and obtained citizenship before having him, which makes them first generation immigrants and purplejedi second generation immigrant.


That seems to be a cause for debate & confusion, which even Wiki alludes to.

I consider myself a "First Generation American". I was born & raised an American.
My parents I consider "First Generation Immigrants" - they were born elsewhere and emigrated to the USA. Their naturalization is irrelevant IMO.
My kids I consider "Second Generation Americans" as they are the 2nd generation born here.

I do not consider myself an "immigrant". I never emigrated anywhere. That was my parents' lot in life. If you use that benchmark, then EVERYONE here who isn't Native American is a XX-generation Immigrant (which clearly is never refered to).


...and going back to the original OP...as I stated in my original reply, the loss of language is a "natural" thing. You don't see generations past the 2nd (sometimes 3rd) retaining the original mother language. That's why all these people who are so bent-out-of-shape with their "English Only" movements who see the recent surge in Spanish-speaking immigrants as a threat to the dominance of English in the USA are really just using that as a vehicle for their racial bias.

The truth of the matter is that in another generation or two (or three), all of these kids being born to Latino immigrants (and their subsequent children) will be speaking English, and sending their own kids to "Spanish classes" the same way Italian, German, Greek, etc, -Americans do today.

By St. Boogar and all the saints at the backside door of Purgatory!
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Reply #19 posted 10/30/14 5:58pm

aardvark15

If I grew up in a bilingual house, I know I sure as hell would've taken the benefit of knowing a language that many others don't. Not only does preserve culture (which slowly seems to fading away) but it's also a benefit in the job market.

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