SeventeenDayze said:

Cinny said:

I don't think you should avoid making a family with the assumption you won't like your partner later!

Yeah I hear ya, Cinny! Maybe I should visualize them being a different kind of roommate instead

That sounds jaded as Hell

Cinny said:

SeventeenDayze said:

Yeah I hear ya, Cinny! Maybe I should visualize them being a different kind of roommate instead

That sounds jaded as Hell

I guess I am trapped by my own jaded thoughts

Marriage isn't meant to make you happy, it's meant to make you married!

I read (could've even been one of the previous pages in this very thread) something that has stayed with me all week. You don't need to be lonely all by yourself, marriage makes it possible for 2 people to be lonely, TOGETHER!

YowMaScroow said:

I rarely see married couples who are happy. But to them I think the idea of independance is scary and thats what keeps them "together". Marriage for life to have babies is an outdated religious tradition.

You're not the first person who has observed that many married people, if not most married people, are unhappy. I wonder why that is. Is it because the thrill is gone? Are they stressed out from work or kids? All of the above? I guess there is a lot of monotony in marriage and you have to keep things interesting I suppose. I'm single so I have no idea what it's like to have the same old job and go back home to the same McMansion with the same husband over and over again. I guess somewhere in there the repeition must be mind numbing at some point. Maybe there's not always joy in repetition if you know what I mean. I guess people who are married just get burned out on things and it has an effect on the kids. I have no idea and I really hope I don't ever have to find out one day either! LOL!

ZombieKitten said:

Marriage isn't meant to make you happy, it's meant to make you married!

I read (could've even been one of the previous pages in this very thread) something that has stayed with me all week. You don't need to be lonely all by yourself, marriage makes it possible for 2 people to be lonely, TOGETHER!

I'm not a huge fan of Chris Rock but I remember hearing him say once that in life you have to choose between being single and lonely or married and bored. He got a good laugh from the audience, so I guess it must be true then!

ZombieKitten said:

YowMaScroow said:

ZombieKitten said:

Marriage isn't meant to make you happy, it's meant to make you married!

I read (could've even been one of the previous pages in this very thread) something that has stayed with me all week. You don't need to be lonely all by yourself, marriage makes it possible for 2 people to be lonely, TOGETHER!

When soul mates find each other, then marry, then end up fighting or lonely, how sad. Maybe marriages require regular counselling guidance to keep them alive.

Yeah I guess the same amount of energy that goes into dating should go into marriage once they have entered into that chapter of their lives.

SeventeenDayze said:

BillieBalloon said:

SeventeenDayze said:

XxAxX said:

this pretty much sums it up:

Why more women choose not to marry

By Pepper Schwartz

updated 1:01 PM EDT, Wed October 15, 2014

from: http://www.cnn.com/2014/1...?hpt=hp_t3

Editor's note: Pepper Schwartz is professor of sociology at the University of Washington and the author of many books, the latest of which is "The Normal Bar." She is the love and relationship ambassador for AARP and writes the Naked Truth column for AARP.org. She is also a senior fellow at the Council on Contemporary Families, a nonprofit organization that gathers research on American families. The opinions in this commentary are solely those of the author.

(CNN) -- Some revolutions happen in a single day; others over decades. The rise of the voluntarily single woman has been happening in Western societies slowly, over time, concomitant with well-paying jobs, legal protection from economic or physical abuse, reliable birth control and the possibility of fulfilling careers and adventures.

Women are marrying at a later age these days, cohabiting with their partners or going in and out of short-term relationships without ever walking down the aisle.

Currently, 53% of women over 18 are ...les column. Put another way, women now have choices that allow them to customize the arc of their lives and some of them find that it is best for them to put marriage aside.

Is this natural? Is this bad? Is this cause for alarm?

We have long counted on women's sacrifices and the compromises they've made to lift societies all over the world. We are worried that if women delay or forgo marriage, the all-important family unit will suffer.

As much as I admire happy couples and families, I think this may be one of the few times in history when so many women could choose from such a full range of life choices without penalty or stigma. Since few people "have it all," why not choose being single if that's the best option?

What it comes down to is people get married when it's a good deal. The question is why isn't marriage a good deal anymore? Here are some considerations.

1. A useless husband

If a woman is poor and only meets equally poor or poorer men, she's in a tough spot. It is no secret that many women do not choose to marry if the available partners will make their economic situation worse.

In some of these cases, even if a woman has a child, she may be better off with government help than a nonworking, noninvolved husband.

2. Success changes everything

When a woman is very privileged or highly successful, marriage could come very easily -- or not. Think of the likes of Elizabeth Taylor, who was married eight times. Or Oprah Winfrey, who for personal or professional reasons, is not married.

Moreover, a woman doesn't need a husband who is a high-powered corporate attorney if she is a high-powered corporate attorney. Taking advantage of economic and professional opportunities could be undermined by committing to a partner with an equally ambitious, or different, life agenda. This kind of woman may wake up every day to new and exciting challenges and think, "best to wait."

3. Unwilling to make traditional compromises

A woman who doesn't want to settle for cooking and cleaning and being the primary parent that society prefers. She is not meeting guys who want the kind of woman she is.

4. The marriage penalty tax

Some women are in an income bracket where marriage inflicts economic costs. She would have to pay more taxes if she marries someone who earns approximately what she makes or more.

5. Avoiding cheating men

A few years ago when I was in China, I had a conversation with some very beautiful female Chinese TV personalities about their personal life. I asked them why they were single and if they wanted to get married.

The three women all said they didn't want to marry because "the men of our class will all expect to have mistresses, and it is better not to marry than have to put up with that." I have no idea if this was an exaggeration or not -- but they believed it.

6. Waiting for the "one"

These women wait for the perfect guy, or the guy who they would fall in love with and love them back just as much. If that man doesn't come along, they prefer to go alone. As women get pickier, more factors enter into the marriage equation.

They may find someone who doesn't quite go the distance even after years of dating. They cohabit with someone and it doesn't work out. Singlehood, never intentional, becomes a fact. But they will not marry just to marry as their mothers or grandmothers might have.

In social psychology, there is a classic theory called "exchange theory." It is a bit cold-blooded, but it predicts that a person's actions will be based on trying to find a balance of give and get. Each person's resources -- of all kinds, including money, looks, background -- are traded back and forth for a "good deal." For example, a "good deal" scenario could be a woman who makes an excellent living pairing up with a man who is a writer and is willing to work at home and be the primary child care person.

When women's life choices were highly constrained, they had little negotiating power. They had to marry or were seen as damaged. A few got away with being "free spirits" but usually they were exceptional in wealth or lineage -- and even so, it wasn't easy.

It's different now. While most women still want marriage, they don't want it at just any price. They don't want it if it scuttles their dreams. Marriage is not dead -- not by a long shot. It is still, to most of us, the house we wish to build for our love, our lover and our children.

But women want to craft a life instead of having it pressed upon them. And that means some of us will be single for a long time, and some of us will be single for life.

Thanks for posting this. I found myself agreeing with just about every word that was written here. It seems like a lot of women out there are facing the same kinds of decisions to make in life. I know a guy (who I never dated) who hasn't held a steady job in a few years has somehow managed to find a woman who is in love with him and she wants to get a place with him but he's living with his mother at the moment. She seems eager to nest with this guy whose main hobby is gambling and drinking a lot.

How does this woman fall in love with this guy who will clearly be on the downward spiral for a while to come?

There are many desperate women out there who make it harder for the rest of us who are not so willing to put up with that kind of nonsense just to say we have a boyfriend/husband.

You seem to have elevated your standards for yourself. A while ago you posted about how you love guys who were obviously bad news.

Congratulations with your improved sense of self worth.

Now you are facing what most women with any sense of self worth have to deal with; why suffer in a relationship?


Men used to be a neccesity for women to survive. So, men did not have to be attractive in order to get a women to take care of him. Nowadays, women are perfectly happy being single.

Generally, men have not put in any effort to become an attractive partner. They leaned against the bar, being competetive about who can drink the most beer and who can make the most derogetory jokes about women.

Men shunned away from healthy food trends, healthy body trends like yoga and healthy mind trends like meditation and developing self knowledge and self reflection.

So, either you spend your time on supporting a man who never became a real adult or you spend your time making yourself happy.


I choose happiness for myself.

Eventhough I wanted to become a mother, I never met a man who wanted to be a father. As in, a good father. The men who I met were under the impression they were great and did not need to develop themselves personally. They had never invested in personal development.

I don't feel like raising a boy of 42 into an adult man.

I hope for the next generations of girls that men will emancipate.

SeventeenDayze said:

Are people who are unmarried and without kids considered by most in society to be losers? I wonder if in some cases people who are tied down are perhaps a bit envious of those who aren't tied down. What do you guys think? I'm unmarried and don't have kids, so does that make me a loser or winner in the long run?

Woman: You dodged a bullet.

Man: Unlucky in life.

dJJ said:

SeventeenDayze said:

Thanks for posting this. I found myself agreeing with just about every word that was written here. It seems like a lot of women out there are facing the same kinds of decisions to make in life. I know a guy (who I never dated) who hasn't held a steady job in a few years has somehow managed to find a woman who is in love with him and she wants to get a place with him but he's living with his mother at the moment. She seems eager to nest with this guy whose main hobby is gambling and drinking a lot.

How does this woman fall in love with this guy who will clearly be on the downward spiral for a while to come?

There are many desperate women out there who make it harder for the rest of us who are not so willing to put up with that kind of nonsense just to say we have a boyfriend/husband.

You seem to have elevated your standards for yourself. A while ago you posted about how you love guys who were obviously bad news.

Congratulations with your improved sense of self worth.

Now you are facing what most women with any sense of self worth have to deal with; why suffer in a relationship?


Men used to be a neccesity for women to survive. So, men did not have to be attractive in order to get a women to take care of him. Nowadays, women are perfectly happy being single.

Generally, men have not put in any effort to become an attractive partner. They leaned against the bar, being competetive about who can drink the most beer and who can make the most derogetory jokes about women.

Men shunned away from healthy food trends, healthy body trends like yoga and healthy mind trends like meditation and developing self knowledge and self reflection.

So, either you spend your time on supporting a man who never became a real adult or you spend your time making yourself happy.


I choose happiness for myself.

Eventhough I wanted to become a mother, I never met a man who wanted to be a father. As in, a good father. The men who I met were under the impression they were great and did not need to develop themselves personally. They had never invested in personal development.

I don't feel like raising a boy of 42 into an adult man.

I hope for the next generations of girls that men will emancipate.

Thanks for your observations about my previous posts I guess it does come down to making a choice instead of "needing" to pair up with a guy because it was a necessity. Also thanks for sharing a bit from your own persona experiences. It gives me hope that there are a lot of women out there who have made the conscious decision not to settle for any old fella that comes along. I guess it takes a lot more resilience to do that instead of just cowering so that you can fit in with some aspect of society.

dJJ said:

SeventeenDayze said:

Are people who are unmarried and without kids considered by most in society to be losers? I wonder if in some cases people who are tied down are perhaps a bit envious of those who aren't tied down. What do you guys think? I'm unmarried and don't have kids, so does that make me a loser or winner in the long run?

Woman: You dodged a bullet.

Man: Unlucky in life.

And there's the short answer

So being alone after getting divorced is better than being alone after never marrying?

To quote Cool James, "I don't think so".

Pokeno4Money said:

So being alone after getting divorced is better than being alone after never marrying?

To quote Cool James, "I don't think so".

Good point. I think there is a lot of pressure for people to marry but then nobody tells you how to be good at it!

Duplicate post-website error

[Edited 10/26/14 17:54pm]

Pokeno4Money said:

So being alone after getting divorced is better than being alone after never marrying?

To quote Cool James, "I don't think so".

Cinny said:

Pokeno4Money said:

So being alone after getting divorced is better than being alone after never marrying?

To quote Cool James, "I don't think so".

YowMaScroow said:

BillieBalloon said:

YowMaScroow said:

Sorry didn't mean to offend you. Do you mind me asking if it is not a walk in the park and you need to work at it, why do you do it?

If its worth it to you..youll do it. If not then you wont. If you love your partner and its mutual then you will do what it takes to be and stay together. Unfortunately some people end up with morons..life can be shitty.

Yeah ending up with a moron does seem like it is a big fear of mine but I guess at some point I have to piss or get off the pot. Either I care enough to take the steps to be in a relationship or I accept not being in one. I guess I can't have the best of both worlds.

SeventeenDayze said:

ZombieKitten said:

Marriage isn't meant to make you happy, it's meant to make you married!

I read (could've even been one of the previous pages in this very thread) something that has stayed with me all week. You don't need to be lonely all by yourself, marriage makes it possible for 2 people to be lonely, TOGETHER!

I'm not a huge fan of Chris Rock but I remember hearing him say once that in life you have to choose between being single and lonely or married and bored. He got a good laugh from the audience, so I guess it must be true then!

People who are fine being alone by themselves don't have to be in a relationship, but can enjoy that kind of life and sleep around if that is what makes them happy in life. But when somebody decides to be in a serious relationship that person should be aware of the responsibilty and consequences.
I was never married but my longest relationship was for 17 years and I was not bored one single day of that time, but always knew how blessed I was to have the man I love on my side. Same goes for my other relationships. Never was bored in any relationship at all. Every day that I spent with a partner was a day worth living for me, no matter if it was a good or a bad day, every day without the man I love on my side was/is a wasted day of my life that I wish I could spend with the person I love. There is nohing that could possibly be better in life for me than being with the one I love. Yes of course you have to compromise and put work into the relationship, but it's so worth it. For me it is one of the very saddest things in life that people these days don't stay with their partners through good and bad days but just move on with the next person as soon as problems come up or times get hard and focus mainly on themselves instead of having their relationship as the number 1 priority in life. That is so unfair towards their partners who might be willing to give their all in the relationship and suffer for the rest of their lives when the have to deal with losing the one they love with all their hearts.

29 and been alone for a long long time. My life is strange.

peacenlovealways said:

29 and been alone for a long long time. My life is strange.

Oh I understand, trust me.

I really enjoyed this article, thanks for sharing. It irritates me when people ask how I'm doing and throw in the question "so are you seeing anyone?" I'm used to being asked about work, but the relationship one has gone up more and more since I turned 30. Though companionship is nice, settling for less isn't and I agree with most of the points in the article though I know there are good men out there too.

alphastreet said:

I really enjoyed this article, thanks for sharing. It irritates me when people ask how I'm doing and throw in the question "so are you seeing anyone?" I'm used to being asked about work, but the relationship one has gone up more and more since I turned 30. Though companionship is nice, settling for less isn't and I agree with most of the points in the article though I know there are good men out there too.

I wonder what your criteria/standards are.

Cinny said:

alphastreet said:

Cinny said:

I wonder what your criteria/standards are.

Well it can't be draining with me doing all the work. I know that for sure. He better be able to support himself without relying on me all the time, and equal shared responsibilities at home are important too. I'd like personal space as well and understanding of my condition cause partners in the past were not getting it and had no sense of personal boundaries if I needed it. It's no longer about shared common interests or similar cultural background to be able to relate though those are considered bonuses, respect going both ways is more important. If he doesn't treat his family well especially the females, that's very telling as well. I don't want kids but if I change my mind, he better be a good role model to them and man up.

Not too much to ask!

Cinny said:

alphastreet said:

Cinny said: Well it can't be draining with me doing all the work. I know that for sure. He better be able to support himself without relying on me all the time, and equal shared responsibilities at home are important too. I'd like personal space as well and understanding of my condition cause partners in the past were not getting it and had no sense of personal boundaries if I needed it. It's no longer about shared common interests or similar cultural background to be able to relate though those are considered bonuses, respect going both ways is more important. If he doesn't treat his family well especially the females, that's very telling as well. I don't want kids but if I change my mind, he better be a good role model to them and man up.

Not too much to ask!

Nope, not at all. I think sometimes people think women's standards are too high but could we agree that sometimes men's standards (of themselves) are too low?