Stymie said:

IF she agreed to this when she bought the car, I don't feel sorry for her.

Oh, don't be so sensible.

How are these people supposed to get to work everyday if they don't have a car? Not everyone is lucky enough to live in a place that has public transportation. So, you take their car and their life gets turned upside down making it less likely that they can get the payment in. This is all designed to make sure people default on loans so that the fat cats can write it off during tax season and then make even higher profit than they would have otherwise because it's not like they weren't making profits from the payments that came before the person was unable to pay. They are still making money from all other previous payments. It's all a scam for the rich to get richer.

SeventeenDayze said:

How are these people supposed to get to work everyday if they don't have a car? Not everyone is lucky enough to live in a place that has public transportation. So, you take their car and their life gets turned upside down making it less likely that they can get the payment in. This is all designed to make sure people default on loans so that the fat cats can write it off during tax season and then make even higher profit than they would have otherwise because it's not like they weren't making profits from the payments that came before the person was unable to pay. They are still making money from all other previous payments. It's all a scam for the rich to get richer.

Obamacar to the rescue?

SeventeenDayze said:

How are these people supposed to get to work everyday if they don't have a car? Not everyone is lucky enough to live in a place that has public transportation. So, you take their car and their life gets turned upside down making it less likely that they can get the payment in. This is all designed to make sure people default on loans so that the fat cats can write it off during tax season and then make even higher profit than they would have otherwise because it's not like they weren't making profits from the payments that came before the person was unable to pay. They are still making money from all other previous payments. It's all a scam for the rich to get richer.

Your heart is in the right place but your conclusions are all wrong.

No lender that repos cars is making money on them. And they dang sure aren't making money by "writing it off". Here's why:

If a bank (or other lending company) "writes off" a loss, that means that first, it had to HAVE a loss. Now sure - there are ways to claim a loss on weird stuff like oil well leases or farming yields, but a loss on a car loan is pretty much a cash loss. So for example, if a bank writes off $5,000 on a car loan, we can be pretty sure they actually lost $5,000 cash money.

If their tax rate is the top rate of 30%, the absolute most they can save in taxes is $1,500 ($5,000 loss times 30% deduction).

But that's a net LOSS to the bank of $3,500. They lost $5,000 but offset that with a $1,500 credit on their taxes. Any way you cut it, that's a $3,500 LOSS.

You mentioned they made a profit on the payments you made before the repo. Fair enough. Let's say you defaulted on the loan after 12 payments, so we can factor in the interest the bank made for that period. On a $20K car with 10% down, which means an $18,000 loan, financed at 12% for 60 months, you paid $2,000 in interest. The bank had to pay taxes on that and let's assume they paid that same top tax rate of 30%. So their net profit on your payments for that year was $1,400.

This means that for the entire transaction, the bank has a net LOSS of $2,100.

However, if you paid your car loan as agreed for the whole 60 months, the bank would make a total of $6,000 profit in interest, which at a 30% tax rate would be a net profit to the bank of $4,200.

So if you owned a bank, which would you rather have:

1. Repo the car and have a net LOSS of $2,100; or
2. Have the loan paid as agreed and make a net PROFIT of $4,200?

.

[Edited 9/29/14 16:25pm]

Look, the number one lesson in this is: PAY CASH. "Debt" is a four-letter word, and maybe the most evil of all four-letter words.

If you can't afford to pay cash for a car, then look at leasing a cheap car and paying all the payments up front.

If you can't do that, then take the bus until you can. Or buy a junker and find a friend that's a good mechanic. Anything but borrowing money.

morningsong said:

babynoz said:

As long as people can have the illusion of prosperity they will continue to ignore that the deck is stacked against them and the playing field ain't level.

Remember that one guy in the matrix movie? He wanted to be re-attached to the delusion so badly that he was willing to betray everybody on his team who were trying to free the people's minds?


Helluva metaphor right there.

You know, one of the first things I thought about when reading this thread was "Repo Men", to me the concept doesn't sound that far fetched, except they wouldn't have to track people down to get their medical devices they'd just flip a switch. As a matter of fact there was a TV show, the now cancelled "Almost Human". You're late with your payment "click" off goes your device and dead you are. There's something to these shows I tell you.

True story.

I saw on Sixty Minutes that they refused to allow Dick Cheney's pacemaker to be remotely connected due to the threat of assassination.

tinaz said:

Stymie said:

IF she agreed to this when she bought the car, I don't feel sorry for her.

I worked for a car dealership that used this program.. This is for people who have pretty bad credit, consistant late or no payments and cant get conventional loans.. They are fully aware of this and the time frame of when they get locked out BEFORE they get handed those keys.. Using the sick daughter as a means of sympathy is just gross...


*spelling edit

[Edited 9/29/14 5:56am]

Here's the thing. The way the practice is implemented varies too greatly according to the whims of the lender. It's not about sympathy...this is about due process. There should be a law as to how this is done just like there are laws that govern when and how you can be evicted or any other debt a person fails to pay. Why should it be any different for auto lenders?


Mr. Vead says that first, he tries reaching a delinquent borrower on the phone or in person. Then, only after at least 30 days of missed payments, he typically shuts down cars when they are parked at the borrower’s house or workplace. If there is an emergency, he says, he will turn a car back on.

None of the borrowers or consumer lawyers interviewed by The New York Times raised concerns about the way Mr. Vead’s credit union uses the devices. But other lenders, they said, were not as considerate, marooning drivers in far-flung places and often giving no advance notice of a shut-off. Lenders say that they exercise caution when disabling vehicles and that the devices enable them to extend more credit.

babynoz said:

Mr. Vead says that first, he tries reaching a delinquent borrower on the phone or in person. Then, only after at least 30 days of missed payments, he typically shuts down cars when they are parked at the borrower’s house or workplace. If there is an emergency, he says, he will turn a car back on.

Sounds fair. I was wondering how the woman's sick child is doing, considering she didn't have this type of dealer. I don't like to hear situations like this.

Beautifulstarr123 said:

babynoz said:

Mr. Vead says that first, he tries reaching a delinquent borrower on the phone or in person. Then, only after at least 30 days of missed payments, he typically shuts down cars when they are parked at the borrower’s house or workplace. If there is an emergency, he says, he will turn a car back on.

Sounds fair. I was wondering how the woman's sick child is doing, considering she didn't have this type of dealer. I don't like to hear situations like this.

It is fair. Too bad its not a requirement. That's the problem.

babynoz said:

Beautifulstarr123 said:

Sounds fair. I was wondering how the woman's sick child is doing, considering she didn't have this type of dealer. I don't like to hear situations like this.

It is fair. Too bad its not a requirement. That's the problem.

This all boils down to greed. It's a sad commentary on the world that we live in. The rich get richer and the poor live in debt for eternity it seems. I think the fact that this is happening and there's no regulations on it is the scary part. I think even if there were "regulations" they wouldn't be enforced much given that rich folks are the ones that bankroll the politicians that create the laws in the first place. Lather, rinse, repeat...

SeventeenDayze said:

babynoz said:

It is fair. Too bad its not a requirement. That's the problem.

This all boils down to greed. It's a sad commentary on the world that we live in. The rich get richer and the poor live in debt for eternity it seems. I think the fact that this is happening and there's no regulations on it is the scary part. I think even if there were "regulations" they wouldn't be enforced much given that rich folks are the ones that bankroll the politicians that create the laws in the first place. Lather, rinse, repeat...

The regulations would be: DON'T lend to them in the FIRST place.

tinaz said:

Stymie said:

IF she agreed to this when she bought the car, I don't feel sorry for her.

I worked for a car dealership that used this program.. This is for people who have pretty bad credit, consistant late or no payments and cant get conventional loans.. They are fully aware of this and the time frame of when they get locked out BEFORE they get handed those keys.. Using the sick daughter as a means of sympathy is just gross...


*spelling edit

[Edited 9/29/14 5:56am]

Please, next we are going to be defending payday loan companies?

She probably agreed to such vulturistic terms because she couldnt get a loan elsewhere.

Sounds like predatory lending if what you are saying is true. gross

hausofmoi7 said:

tinaz said:

I worked for a car dealership that used this program.. This is for people who have pretty bad credit, consistant late or no payments and cant get conventional loans.. They are fully aware of this and the time frame of when they get locked out BEFORE they get handed those keys.. Using the sick daughter as a means of sympathy is just gross...


*spelling edit

[Edited 9/29/14 5:56am]

Please, next we are going to be defending payday loan companies?

She probably agreed to such vulturistic terms because she couldnt get a loan elsewhere.

Sounds like predatory lending if what you are saying is true. gross

Not everyone can afford to buy a car.

Let me repeat what I just said: NOT EVERYONE CAN AFFORD TO BUY A CAR.

So if you have such horrific credit...get your act together, pay your bills on time, and get a loan when your means allow it.

I would love to buy a new car right now. WOULD LOVE IT. But my finances do not allow it. My current car is suddenly falling apart bit-by-bit. Due to my circumstances of the past 4 years, my credit has hit rock-bottom. I can make the payments on a new car, but if I were to get a loan today, it would be one of those ultra-high interest rate ones (probably with a disconnect switch).

So I am not. I will fix my car bit by bit, and when I am back on track, I will get that Honda that I have my eye on.

As for payday loans...those are EXACTLY what they sound like. PAY DAY LOANS. I used one to travel to Seattle through Great Plains Lending. I got $1,000. Flew to Seattle. Had a great time. When I got back, I should have paid it back, but I paid it off in like 6 installments, so I would up paying them an obscene amount of interest...BUT I KNEW WHAT I WAS DOING. No one put a gun to my head and FORCED me to take the loan. I'm a big boy. Got my big boy pants on. I didn't cry and whine about it. It was my choice.

And that's the problem. People fuck up and expect other people to clean up after them.

Everyone - EVERYONE - starts off with "good" credit. What you do, the choices you make, affects that. Americans in particular have taken to using credit to live above their means. That's a CHOICE. When you have overextended yourself and can't buy that car, don't whine and complain and use your sick child to gain attention. Take a taxi. Take a bus. Call an ambulance. But don't use your sick child for attention. That's disgusting.

PurpleJedi said:

hausofmoi7 said:

Please, next we are going to be defending payday loan companies?

She probably agreed to such vulturistic terms because she couldnt get a loan elsewhere.

Sounds like predatory lending if what you are saying is true. gross

And that's the problem. People fuck up and expect other people to clean up after them.

Donald Trump should have a disconnect switch. How many times has he, sorry I mean one of his businesses claimed bankruptcy?

For all you know this woman may have bad credit because she fell behind on a previous loan and its repayments-so what?

she would have had to pay it back with interest!

and then they have the audacity to put these people on a bad credit list after getting their money back with interest while Donald Trump keeps getting loans for bad businesses? FOH

[Edited 9/30/14 7:13am]

PurpleJedi said:

PurpleJedi said:

SeventeenDayze said:

This all boils down to greed. It's a sad commentary on the world that we live in. The rich get richer and the poor live in debt for eternity it seems. I think the fact that this is happening and there's no regulations on it is the scary part. I think even if there were "regulations" they wouldn't be enforced much given that rich folks are the ones that bankroll the politicians that create the laws in the first place. Lather, rinse, repeat...

The regulations would be: DON'T lend to them in the FIRST place.

I think people are missing the point. No one is saying that people should get a pass when they default on a loan.

babynoz said:

PurpleJedi said:

The regulations would be: DON'T lend to them in the FIRST place.

I think people are missing the point. No one is saying that people should get a pass when they default on a loan.

Have you read the thread? Several people are saying that.

PurpleJedi said:

Genesia said:

babynoz said:

I think people are missing the point. No one is saying that people should get a pass when they default on a loan.

Have you read the thread? Several people are saying that.

Nevermind...I give up.

I'm gonna finish listening to Art Official Age and read Prince's fcukbook Q & A,

hausofmoi7 said:

PurpleJedi said:

And that's the problem. People fuck up and expect other people to clean up after them.

Donald Trump should have a disconnect switch. How many times has he, sorry I mean one of his businesses claimed bankruptcy?

For all you know this woman may have bad credit because she fell behind on a previous loan and its repayments-so what?

she would have had to pay it back with interest!

and then they have the audacity to put these people on a bad credit list after getting their money back with interest while Donald Trump keeps getting loans for bad businesses? FOH

[Edited 9/30/14 7:13am]

...she could claim bankruptcy, just like The Donald.

I am just about the LAST person that you can preach to about falling behind & bad credit.

Been there, done that. Ad nauseum. There are options.

I'm not parading my 3 kids for pity from nogoddamnedbody.
.

Beautifulstarr123 said:

PurpleJedi said:

The regulations would be: DON'T lend to them in the FIRST place.

So, what if there's a situation whereas the borrower had triple A credit, good income, at the time of signing, but suddenly fell on hard times, like being laid off, for an example. Would you then say it's his/her fault for not paying? Everyone is a potential risk, whether it is a conventional or non-conventional loan. I'm not saying excuse the debt, but at least work some type of financial arrangement out with the dealer of course if the dealer is willing. It's totally at their discretion. My brother-in-law is a car dealer, and he deals with all types of credit.

But that's NOT the case being shown here.

We are dealing with "oh my poor sick kid couldn't get to the doctor because the evil creditors turned off my car". Somethnng which she surely knew was an option when she signed the loan.

Does your brother-in-law install these contraptions?

If not, can he help this lady out?

Hell...can he help get ME a car with near rock-bottom credit WITHOUT charging me 20% interest?

PurpleJedi said:

hausofmoi7 said:

Donald Trump should have a disconnect switch. How many times has he, sorry I mean one of his businesses claimed bankruptcy?

For all you know this woman may have bad credit because she fell behind on a previous loan and its repayments-so what?

she would have had to pay it back with interest!

and then they have the audacity to put these people on a bad credit list after getting their money back with interest while Donald Trump keeps getting loans for bad businesses? FOH

[Edited 9/30/14 7:13am]

...she could claim bankruptcy, just like The Donald.

I am just about the LAST person that you can preach to about falling behind & bad credit.

Been there, done that. Ad nauseum. There are options.

I'm not parading my 3 kids for pity from nogoddamnedbody.
.

So, a business owner like Donald can secure his assests and property by claiming bankruptcy via his businesses for his bad finacial decisions. But the average person is penalised for making late loan repayments which they have to pay interest on anyway - interest is penalty enough, not to mention being immoral.

As others have previously stated it just sounds like a system set up to hold certain people back while helping others move ahead.

.

[Edited 10/1/14 0:46am]

PurpleJedi said:

Beautifulstarr123 said:

PurpleJedi said: So, what if there's a situation whereas the borrower had triple A credit, good income, at the time of signing, but suddenly fell on hard times, like being laid off, for an example. Would you then say it's his/her fault for not paying? Everyone is a potential risk, whether it is a conventional or non-conventional loan. I'm not saying excuse the debt, but at least work some type of financial arrangement out with the dealer of course if the dealer is willing. It's totally at their discretion. My brother-in-law is a car dealer, and he deals with all types of credit.

But that's NOT the case being shown here.

We are dealing with "oh my poor sick kid couldn't get to the doctor because the evil creditors turned off my car". Somethnng which she surely knew was an option when she signed the loan.

Does your brother-in-law install these contraptions?

If not, can he help this lady out?

Hell...can he help get ME a car with near rock-bottom credit WITHOUT charging me 20% interest?

Ok, fine, and I do understand. She knew what she signed for, granted. This is why I mentioned at the discretion of the car dealer, regardless of the situation. As for my brother-in-law, I have to speak to him further on it: what's the interest rate for higher risk loans, etc, but he deals with people of all walks of life.

Beautifulstarr123 said:

PurpleJedi said:

But that's NOT the case being shown here.

We are dealing with "oh my poor sick kid couldn't get to the doctor because the evil creditors turned off my car". Somethnng which she surely knew was an option when she signed the loan.

Does your brother-in-law install these contraptions?

If not, can he help this lady out?

Hell...can he help get ME a car with near rock-bottom credit WITHOUT charging me 20% interest?

Ok, fine, and I do understand. She knew what she signed for, granted. This is why I mentioned at the discretion of the car dealer, regardless of the situation. As for my brother-in-law, I have to speak to him further on it: what's the interest rate for higher risk loans, etc, but he deals with people of all walks of life.

Exactly.

Listen, we are certainly living in a society that has lost its way. America has for DECADES been living on borrowed time. The average American is so consumed with owning the latest THIS or newest THAT and traveling HERE and enjoying THERE that something as simple & basic as personal savings seems like a foreign concept. I speak as someone living it. I have less than $3,000 stored away for my retirement, but I am traveling here & there, and buying this & that.

But I'm certainly not crying about it when my life choices cause me trouble. Of course I felt like shit when Honda told me I couldn't get the car that I wanted so badly that I could taste it. But at the end of the day its up to ME to get my act together and stop dining out and buying the kids "stuff" if I want to have money in the bank. There is no "conspiracy" to "keep me down" or set me up for failure. It's the life that we lead, and it's up to us (not the government, not lenders, not your mom & pop) to do what needs to be done to get back on track.

The one thing I will say is this: I feel horribly & terribly sorry for the millions of Americans who have had to declare bankruptcy due to medical bills. Getting sick with a terrible illness is bad enough...but to then have to go through losing your home & stuff? That is harsh.
I am hopeful that the ACA will finally put an end to that (Even though there is nothing "Affordable" about the Affordable Care Act). But bankruptcy at least allows you to start anew and move forward. And if you own a business, you can do what you need to do in order to keep the two separate with some good lawyers. The law works for both business owners and non. Just have to be smart about it.

[Sorry for the sermon. This is my last ramble on this thread so I wanted to say what I had to say.]

Stymie said:

IF she agreed to this when she bought the car, I don't feel sorry for her.

This.

PurpleJedi said:

Beautifulstarr123 said:

Ok, fine, and I do understand. She knew what she signed for, granted. This is why I mentioned at the discretion of the car dealer, regardless of the situation. As for my brother-in-law, I have to speak to him further on it: what's the interest rate for higher risk loans, etc, but he deals with people of all walks of life.

Exactly.

Listen, we are certainly living in a society that has lost its way. America has for DECADES been living on borrowed time. The average American is so consumed with owning the latest THIS or newest THAT and traveling HERE and enjoying THERE that something as simple & basic as personal savings seems like a foreign concept. I speak as someone living it. I have less than $3,000 stored away for my retirement, but I am traveling here & there, and buying this & that.

But I'm certainly not crying about it when my life choices cause me trouble. Of course I felt like shit when Honda told me I couldn't get the car that I wanted so badly that I could taste it. But at the end of the day its up to ME to get my act together and stop dining out and buying the kids "stuff" if I want to have money in the bank. There is no "conspiracy" to "keep me down" or set me up for failure. It's the life that we lead, and it's up to us (not the government, not lenders, not your mom & pop) to do what needs to be done to get back on track.

The one thing I will say is this: I feel horribly & terribly sorry for the millions of Americans who have had to declare bankruptcy due to medical bills. Getting sick with a terrible illness is bad enough...but to then have to go through losing your home & stuff? That is harsh.
I am hopeful that the ACA will finally put an end to that (Even though there is nothing "Affordable" about the Affordable Care Act). But bankruptcy at least allows you to start anew and move forward. And if you own a business, you can do what you need to do in order to keep the two separate with some good lawyers. The law works for both business owners and non. Just have to be smart about it.

[Sorry for the sermon. This is my last ramble on this thread so I wanted to say what I had to say.]

You make good points.

I read a few years ago, during the ACA debate, that more than half of the consumer bankruptcies are due to medical expenses.

If the ACA can make a substantial dent in that, it could solve more than half the problem!

There are some folks on this thread that seem to be dellusional and taking the side of the predator lender. Tell me, does it make you rich to side with the rich in situations like this? Why do rich folks still profit from these kind of scams that are designed to keep people in debt, in fact, securities backed loans have made some bad dudes a lot, A LOT OF MONEY the past several years since deregulation is now the new big thing on Wall Street and Capitol Hill. Everytime someone defaults on a loan, there is someone else getting paid. That's how the scam goes. Believe or not, there are people who have gamed the system to make sure that they always win and when someone wins, there is always someone else LOSING and in that case, it's 99.9999 percent of the time going to be working class people on the losing end of things. The people produce the goods and services that make the world go round but own virtually none of it. Even things that you THINK you own are not yours but the bank owns them. Then, as soon as you get close to paying it off the reality of "devaluation" hits you like a ton of bricks. The banks are happy to say that your home is worth something as long as you are paying off the loan but the minute you finished slaving over your job to pay for the house, it's falling apart and worth nothing. Face it folks, greed is real, it motivates people to create laws, financial terms, etc. that guarantee that the rich STAY RICH and the poor keep losing.

SeventeenDayze said:

SeventeenDayze said:

There are some folks on this thread that seem to be dellusional and taking the side of the predator lender. Tell me, does it make you rich to side with the rich in situations like this? Why do rich folks still profit from these kind of scams that are designed to keep people in debt, in fact, securities backed loans have made some bad dudes a lot, A LOT OF MONEY the past several years since deregulation is now the new big thing on Wall Street and Capitol Hill. Everytime someone defaults on a loan, there is someone else getting paid. That's how the scam goes. Believe or not, there are people who have gamed the system to make sure that they always win and when someone wins, there is always someone else LOSING and in that case, it's 99.9999 percent of the time going to be working class people on the losing end of things. The people produce the goods and services that make the world go round but own virtually none of it. Even things that you THINK you own are not yours but the bank owns them. Then, as soon as you get close to paying it off the reality of "devaluation" hits you like a ton of bricks. The banks are happy to say that your home is worth something as long as you are paying off the loan but the minute you finished slaving over your job to pay for the house, it's falling apart and worth nothing. Face it folks, greed is real, it motivates people to create laws, financial terms, etc. that guarantee that the rich STAY RICH and the poor keep losing.

oh pulease. what about personal responsibility and accountability?