I really believe this to be true. I have been reading about columbine. And watched this documentary that came out this year. They painted the shooters as ''weirdos'' ''outcasts'' who had no friends and listened to Marilyn Manson, KMFDM, and Ministry all day.

Yet they actually had quite a few friends. They lived in really good neighborhoods with good parents. One was going to the military, the other a big university. Then they started acting weird... and their friends were scared of them. Yet the media wanted to make them out to be something different. It seems every killer has to have a fucked up childhood, sexually abused, bad parents etc. Yet that's not always the case. Some people are just fucked up in the head.

Jeffrey Dahmer had good parents. Yeah they got a divorce... but i doubt that caused his sexual cannibalization of people. They said he always had a pretty privileged life. And was even popular and found attractive in the ay bars he frequented.

Another is the Virginia Tech Killer. People made him out to be this bullied kid. And while some kids were assholes to him. A lot of kids tried to get him involved with parties. Tried to be his friend and all that jazz. They said he was having issues and having sick fantasies since he was a kid. And that it didn't just stem from bullying or lack of friends.

What do y'all think? i want some serious opinions on this. Do you believe some people are born evil? do you believe there's always a psychological reason? or a personal reason? do you think the born evil thing is not possible?

IMO - people are born with different levels of empathy. I noticed this with my own kids...my oldest is very apathetic - nothing really impacts him - while my youngest is a mush-ball. They've been raised the same, yet their levels of emotional attachment are very different.

So now...you take someone who may be naturally low in the empathy department, and add all of the depravity and desensitization of modern culture, and WALLAH! - you get more and more kids with the propensity of becoming monsters.



Just my POV of course.

PurpleJedi said:

IMO - people are born with different levels of empathy. I noticed this with my own kids...my oldest is very apathetic - nothing really impacts him - while my youngest is a mush-ball. They've been raised the same, yet their levels of emotional attachment are very different.

So now...you take someone who may be naturally low in the empathy department, and add all of the depravity and desensitization of modern culture, and WALLAH! - you get more and more kids with the propensity of becoming monsters.



Just my POV of course.

This could be on the right track as well. Lack of empathy mixed with culture and other things. Although i don't just blame video games or music. Media makes serial killers out to be heroes most of the time. Victims are named a few times. While killers live on forever through books, movies, documentaries etc.

Seung-Hui Cho who commited the Tech masscare. They said he was quiet and reserved all his life. Not just to school mates... but everyone. Including his parents! school mates in high school and in college tried to talk to him. They all said he was quiet and never wanted to be apart of a group. And people in high schoola nd college said they never saw him bullied.

Yet in the videos he makes he feels differently. And feels he has been wronged and everyone hates him. He seemed to have a ''Me VS the world'' mentality since he was a kid. No empathy or anything to fellow people.

Gunsnhalen said:

PurpleJedi said:

This could be on the right track as well. Lack of empathy mixed with culture and other things. Although i don't just blame video games or music. Media makes serial killers out to be heroes most of the time. Victims are named a few times. While killers live on forever through books, movies, documentaries etc.

There is definitely an expolitation of these masacres, and it's quite amazing that they culturally do become heroes.

.

What about the race component (I know there is alot of race talk on this board, and this not a highjack)

But that has always been an interesting fact, that these people are always white? (high majority)

.

Is it privilege? Is it that people of other races do not expect much from society and dont flip out when life takes them through all it's ups and downs?

They expect life & society to be unfair to a certain level?

.

What did these white males expect from life?

What did we leave off thier silver platter to make them throw these entitled fits of rage?

.

I also think that culturally celebrating and glorifying war and holocausts of other humans is an issue.

for example, How creepy and evil is it that society celebrates every year the massacre of indegenious people?

I would also like to see statistics on how many of these white males were also raised in conservative/nationalists households, those who were taught that such attrocities are fine and are a source of pride.

Then add that with the "individuality" philosophy that is part of that culture/ideology.

I cant see the children of white progressives being on that list.

.

[Edited 9/4/14 11:07am]

With all the friends having babies and young kids these days... I definitely see a few growing Mr (or Ms) Michael Myers. All kidding aside, there is always that one kid or toddler you encounter that seems non empathetic and destructive in a dark way.

To some degree I think kids learn empathy from positive or moral narratives in cartoons (or in general creative art) or witnessing peers (other kids) go through the same thing they did.

I'm one that really does believe that we are seeing the aftermath of murder/cruelty oriented video games, art, and media exposed to very young children.

[Edited 9/4/14 10:48am]

hell yes, and usually their parents had some sort of evilness/assholiness to begin with

hausofmoi7 said:

Gunsnhalen said:

This could be on the right track as well. Lack of empathy mixed with culture and other things. Although i don't just blame video games or music. Media makes serial killers out to be heroes most of the time. Victims are named a few times. While killers live on forever through books, movies, documentaries etc.

There is definitely an expolitation of these masacres, and it's quite amazing that they culturally do become heroes.

.

What about the race component (I know there is alot of race talk on this board, and this not a highjack)

But that has always been an interesting fact, that these people are always white? (high majority)

.

Is it privilege? Is it that people of other races do not expect much from society and dont flip out when life takes them through all it's ups and downs?

They expect life & society to be unfair to a certain level?

.

What did these white males expect from life?

What did we leave off thier silver platter to make them throw these entitled fits of rage?

.

I also think that culturally celebrating and glorifying war and holocausts of other humans is an issue.

for example, How creepy and evil is it that society celebrates every year the massacre of indegenious people?

I would also like to see statistics on how many of these white males were also raised in conservative/nationalists households, those who were taught that such attrocities are fine and are a source of pride.

Then add that with the "individuality" philosophy that is part of that culture/ideology.

I cant see the children of white progressives being on that list.

.

[Edited 9/4/14 11:07am]

This is a very legit point. White guys cause almost all the big school shootings. There misunderstood and no one goes ''oh no that white guy is gonna cause a school shooting''

Virginia Tech shooter is Asian. Now everyone assumes every weird asian will shoot up a school. Since i'm half Asian i don't dig that bullshit line of thinking. I heard a lot of racists shit towards asians after that happened. Oh... and it was the families fault and bullying.

White kids? they were misunderstood, let down, and all that.

Asian kid? it was the parents, it was the asian family, all asian nerds are crazy.

I can't imagine what people would see if a black man did it. They would go on Fox news talking about how wicked the black family is. And making specials about ''violence in the black community''

But once again, white kids? just misunderstood.

ufoclub said:

With all the friends having babies and young kids these days... I definitely see a few growing Mr (or Ms) Michael Myers. All kidding aside, there is always that one kid or toddler you encounter that seems non empathetic and destructive in a dark way.

To some degree I think kids learn empathy from positive or moral narratives in cartoons (or in general creative art) or witnessing peers (other kids) go through the same thing they did.

I'm one that really does believe that we are seeing the aftermath of murder/cruelty oriented video games, art, and media exposed to very young children.

[Edited 9/4/14 10:48am]

I think people are incredibly influenced by their friends. I've seen kids with straight A's and honor roll classes. Who gave it all up to be in a gang. Just by the influence of their so called buddies. And wantign to ''lead in the life and be a Don''

yes and also, the world can make people evil

I don't think so. I believe people are born intrinsically selfish. The extent to which they become consumed by that insularity or manage it in balance with deference to others is what determines their character. (And, thereby, whether they'd come to be appreciated by others as "good," "evil," etc.)

And, yes, I suspect environment plays a big, though not exclusive, role in this development.

[Edited 9/5/14 19:29pm]

PurpleJedi said:

IMO - people are born with different levels of empathy. I noticed this with my own kids...my oldest is very apathetic - nothing really impacts him - while my youngest is a mush-ball. They've been raised the same, yet their levels of emotional attachment are very different.

So now...you take someone who may be naturally low in the empathy department, and add all of the depravity and desensitization of modern culture, and WALLAH! - you get more and more kids with the propensity of becoming monsters.



Just my POV of course.

I agree with most of PJ's point of view.


Evil has always existed, before modern culture took root. My parents and grandparents lived around and among evil people most of their lives. We accept violence and we have different rules for different people. We always appear SHOCKED when this shit spreads to people and places some thought were immune to evil or evil acts.

JoeTyler said:

hell yes, and usually their parents had some sort of evilness/assholiness to begin with

Hear here! I see it daily in interaction with some folk and so called friends. They have no sense of honor or compassion or empathy, and when you look at the source, their parents or relatives, friends and associates, you can see why they can turn into sociopaths and degenerates. I've been hurt by some people I completely trusted only to find out later that they were products of their environment and lack of home training. What was that line some comidian said? Follow an asshole home and see who opens the door.

Gunsnhalen said:

I really believe this to be true.

Were you born evil?

Embrace said:

Gunsnhalen said:

I really believe this to be true.

Were you born evil?

My twin was

Our whole society now is more paranoid than I ever remember seeing it before. It does seem like people are more willing to view others with opposing views as a Problem that needs to be solved by eradicating it.

I saw an interesting TED talk about the three assumptions we often make when faced with people who disagree with us. The first: they are ignorant, if they only knew the truth they would agree with me. When it turns out that those people do know the facts and still disagree, we say, well they're not that bright. If they only understood what they were seeing, we would agree. Then when it turns out those people are in fact pretty smart, we say, they are EVIL - they know the truth and are concealing it deliberately.

Well pretty clearly, this is a disatrous way to go through the world. We can't get everyone in town to agree about ANY issue. But nobody is willing to concede that they might be wrong. We're ALL believed to be evil by somebody.

Guns I know that's not the kind of "evil" you are talking about. Harris and Klebold are nuts. Whether they were born that way, made that way, or chose to become that way is impossible to determine. But I do think this way of looking at things leads to a society where it's more possible for people to form a belief that other people are not worthy of life. And we're seeing the evidence of it in these mass shootings that are now commonplace. Unless lots and lots of people decide to go in a new more compassionate direction en masse, then we are just going to have to learn to live with mass shootings and more dehumanization.

Are People Born Evil?'

well there is a way of answering this question with another question.

Are People Born naturally comedic?

my answer would have to be: some people are prone to be evil, and some people are prone to be funny.

it's in the dna (i think).

Gunsnhalen said:

What do y'all think? i want some serious opinions on this. Do you believe some people are born evil? do you believe there's always a psychological reason? or a personal reason? do you think the born evil thing is not possible?

I think the answer to your question begins by asking you to define evil. Often, evil is couched

in terms of religion, whereas "bad-ness" isn't loaded with that particular weight. So, which one

are you speaking of, Guns?

That being said, I do not think people are born evil. Evil-ness, which has to be norm of society,

as there isn't a universal evil-ness that I know of, depends then, upon the culture and mores of

a particular society. With that, those actions that indicate evil seem to be based upon the capacity

of humans to participate in evil-ness, similar to the capacity of humans to participate in goodness,

or, for you religiously minded folk, acts of righteousness.

But, no, being that there is no gene per se that indicates one is evil (just like there is no gene that

indicates goodness/righteousness), then evil-ness cannot be inherent at birth; only the capacity to

perform those actions is innate. People are born "Black," or "left-handed," or with a syndrome

like Down's syndrome. These are genetical and therefore, detectable, and as it follows, natural,

and innate. Evil-ness is not any of these things, as it is interpreted solely through culture.

Now, just because you come into this world with genetical information that hinders your

psychological ability to empathize with others doesn't mean that you are automatically destined

for evilness. This is where nurture overtakes what is natural. In other words, Jeffrey Dahmer,

for example, may have had some genetical information that prohibited him from empathizing,

but you better believe his acts of bad-ness/evil-ness were also (mostly) learned.

The Columbine killers (I refuse to remember their names because I do not remember the

names of their victims) may have had some psychological defect at birth. But their capacity

to commit acts of bad-ness/evil-ness was fostered through their interactions with society.

JoeTyler said:

hell yes, and usually their parents had some sort of evilness/assholiness to begin with

In a way, you're wrong.

But in a way, you're right. See my post above.

morningsong said:

Reading some things on serial killers shows something is going on within their minds that doesn't happen to most people that share similar backgrounds, some ingrained thing that craves satisfaction.

Okay, so let's say that the brain region responsible for empathy, the cerebral cortex, was not

fully developed and/or was defective upon birth. This is genetical, of course.

But just because Dahmer's cerebral cortex never fully developed and/or was genetically defective

does not mean that he had to perform evil actions, indicating that he was born evil. Dahmer had

to have two eyes, as was determined by his genetics; he was born this way. But because of the

influence of society on our development, it aids in developing the capacity to produce evil actions.

Dahmer's neurology meant that he could produce evil-ness, not that he had to. If he is not

traumatized in youth, or victimized; or if he was raised in a household where he is taught empathy,

compassion, etc. (these things can be learned), then the possibility of Dahmer being a contributing

member of society despite his genetical defect increases.

duccichucka said:

the actual wiring of the brain of a sociopath/psychopath is physically different from 'normal' people. that is, some people are born without the physical capacity to feel empathy.

from:http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/09/130924174331.htm?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=neurological-basis-for-lack-of-empathy-in-psychopaths

Psychopathy is a personality disorder characterized by a lack of empathy and remorse, shallow affect, glibness, manipulation and callousness. Previous research indicates that the rate of psychopathy in prisons is around 23%, greater than the average population which is around 1%.

To better understand the neurological basis of empathy dysfunction in psychopaths, neuroscientists used functional magnetic resonance imaging (fMRI) on the brains of 121 inmates of a medium-security prison in the USA.

Participants were shown visual scenarios illustrating physical pain, such as a finger caught between a door, or a toe caught under a heavy object. They were by turns invited to imagine that this accident happened to themselves, or somebody else. They were also shown control images that did not depict any painful situation, for example a hand on a doorknob.

Participants were assessed with the widely used PCL-R, a diagnostic tool to identify their degree of psychopathic tendencies. Based on this assessment, the participants were then divided in three groups of approximately 40 individuals each: highly, moderately, and weakly psychopathic.

When highly psychopathic participants imagined pain to themselves, they showed a typical neural response within the brain regions involved in empathy for pain, including the anterior insula, the anterior midcingulate cortex, somatosensory cortex, and the right amygdala. The increase in brain activity in these regions was unusually pronounced, suggesting that psychopathic people are sensitive to the thought of pain.

But when participants imagined pain to others, these regions failed to become active in high psychopaths. Moreover, psychopaths showed an increased response in the ventral striatum, an area known to be involved in pleasure, when imagining others in pain.

This atypical activation combined with a negative functional connectivity between the insula and the ventromedial prefrontal cortex may suggest that individuals with high scores on psychopathy actually enjoyed imagining pain inflicted on others and did not care for them. The ventromedial prefrontal cortex is a region that plays a critical role in empathetic decision-making, such as caring for the wellbeing of others.

Taken together, this atypical pattern of activation and effective connectivity associated with perspective taking manipulations may inform intervention programs in a domain where therapeutic pessimism is more the rule than the exception. Altered connectivity may constitute novel targets for intervention. Imagining oneself in pain or in distress may trigger a stronger affective reaction than imagining what another person would feel, and this could be used with some psychopaths in cognitive-behavior therapies as a kick-starting technique, write the authors.

---

Story Source:

The above story is based on materials provided by Frontiers. Note: Materials may be edited for content and length.

---

in a world without cultural/societal measures of "good" and "evil" it might be said that a sociopath/pschopathic person will be a better overall survivor in this world.

XxAxX said:

the actual wiring of the brain of a sociopath/psychopath is physically different from 'normal' people. that is, some people are born without the physical capacity to feel empathy.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the study you produce here does not indicate that there are some

people born without the physical capacity to feel empathy. The study reveals that those with

personality disorders that are anti-social can feel empathy for themselves, but the region of their

brain that responds to showing empathy for others is not mapped as those who are not considered

personality disordered, that is, they derive a sense of pleasure in seeing people in pain.

I kinda think you're misinterpreting the study.

from:http://io9.com/5862046/what-makes-a-psychopaths-brain-different

Am I Evil? Yes I Am, I Am Man

XxAxX said:

in a world without cultural/societal measures of "good" and "evil" it might be said that a sociopath/pschopathic person will be a better overall survivor in this world.

I doubt that.

Here's an examply why I think sociopaths make bad survivors. They don't base their decisions on survival, their only aim is personal gain. That doesn't make a strong survivor.

If you look at the board, financers and facilitators of Monsanto, at face value, it seems true.

These people are psychopaths and make a lot of money, hence they are succesfull.

They decided to intimidate and use extremely measures to stop independent scientists to be able to publish the long tern effects of GMO's. These studies indicate that long term effects are unhealthy and threathening the reproductive system of humans.

So, they seem to be succesful, but make choices that violate mankind. And that undermines survival.

hausofmoi7 said:

Gunsnhalen said:

This could be on the right track as well. Lack of empathy mixed with culture and other things. Although i don't just blame video games or music. Media makes serial killers out to be heroes most of the time. Victims are named a few times. While killers live on forever through books, movies, documentaries etc.

There is definitely an expolitation of these masacres, and it's quite amazing that they culturally do become heroes.

.

What about the race component (I know there is alot of race talk on this board, and this not a highjack)

But that has always been an interesting fact, that these people are always white? (high majority)

.

Is it privilege? Is it that people of other races do not expect much from society and dont flip out when life takes them through all it's ups and downs?

They expect life & society to be unfair to a certain level?

.

What did these white males expect from life?

What did we leave off thier silver platter to make them throw these entitled fits of rage?

.

I also think that culturally celebrating and glorifying war and holocausts of other humans is an issue.

for example, How creepy and evil is it that society celebrates every year the massacre of indegenious people?

I would also like to see statistics on how many of these white males were also raised in conservative/nationalists households, those who were taught that such attrocities are fine and are a source of pride.

Then add that with the "individuality" philosophy that is part of that culture/ideology.

I cant see the children of white progressives being on that list.

.

[Edited 9/4/14 11:07am]

There are many examples of senseless violence among all races.

In every population, irregard of race, there is a 5% extremely morally developed and a 5% extremely immoral.

It depends on systematic biases in society and culture where the 5% evil ends up. In America the most of the white 5% immorals are CEO's and political leaders and the most of the non-white 5% are leaders of criminal gangs or love to serve in the army.


I don't think there is a racial difference in sociopath, however, there is a racial bias in where the sociopaths end up.