kpowers said:

I hope they all get knocked out

On the news I saw that proposed legislation would charge the offenders with a gang related offence, charge the children as adults and have them serve a minimum of 25 years. As a black man in my early 40's, I support this wholeheartedly. As a teenager (back in the 80's) I was concerned about smelling nice, having a tight haircut and bring dressed well enough to at least stick my finger in some willing girls panties. What the fuck is up with these young fools?

dseann said:

kpowers said:

I hope they all get knocked out

On the news I saw that proposed legislation would charge the offenders with a gang related offence, charge the children as adults and have them serve a minimum of 25 years. As a black man in my early 40's, I support this wholeheartedly. As a teenager (back in the 80's) I was concerned about smelling nice, having a tight haircut and bring dressed well enough to at least stick my finger in some willing girls panties. What the fuck is up with these young fools?

When in the history of man has punishment really worked as a deterrent? Why can't we get it through our heads that reactive responses simply do not work. Let's just throw more people in jail.

Where are the proactive solutions?

[Edited 11/22/13 6:40am]

PurpleJedi said:

G.R.E.A.T.

That's just what we need...reinforcing stereotypes.



I hope their mommas recognize them on youtube and beat the living crap out of them.

So they can learn new techniques to knock people out?

Seriously, I'm not one of those people who insists that corporal should never be an option. But I don't think this would be the fix here.

JustErin said:

dseann said:

On the news I saw that proposed legislation would charge the offenders with a gang related offence, charge the children as adults and have them serve a minimum of 25 years. As a black man in my early 40's, I support this wholeheartedly. As a teenager (back in the 80's) I was concerned about smelling nice, having a tight haircut and bring dressed well enough to at least stick my finger in some willing girls panties. What the fuck is up with these young fools?

When in the history of man has punishment really worked as a deterrent? Why can't we get it through our heads that reactive responses simply do not work. Let's just throw more people in jail.

Where are the proactive solutions?

[Edited 11/22/13 6:40am]

I think consequences should be part of the mix, but I absolutely agree with you that punishment utterly fails as the centrepiece for corrective and deterrent strategies.

That, of course, begs the question: What are your suggestions?

[Edited 11/22/13 7:19am]

kewlschool said:

ConsciousContact said:

A competitive school system which compares pupils against each other solely by grades and intellectual ability. This comparison can breed jealousy and resentment. Some kids feel useless, disempowered and resentful and turn to violence in an attempt to reassert their authority. That's one factor.

Agreed, I also think it's lack of empathy for others and treating another person (Or picking on them) like a piece of shit gives them a sense of power over someone else. The victim is always viewed as less than human, so it's ok to treat them poorly.

You do realize though, that it is almost always a case of the bully also being a victim somewhere along the line himself, right? There is a reason why the bully is desperately looking for power over someone else.

Its just a vicious circle.

Lammastide said:

JustErin said:

When in the history of man has punishment really worked as a deterrent? Why can't we get it through our heads that reactive responses simply do not work. Let's just throw more people in jail.

Where are the proactive solutions?

[Edited 11/22/13 6:40am]

I think consequences should be part of the mix, but I absolutely agree with you that punishment utterly fails as the centrepiece for corrective and deterrent strategies.

That, of course, begs the question: What are your suggestions?

[Edited 11/22/13 7:19am]

Don't misunderstand what I said as me thinking that punishment should be abolished.

I certainly do not claim to have all the answers but I think that more community outreach programs would be a good start. Also outreach programs for those that are already incarcerated should also be implemented. The money that is going into to more or bigger prisons should be invested there instead.

i'm surprised nobody has gunned them down already...in fear, self-defense...

JoeTyler said:

i'm surprised nobody has gunned them down already...in fear, self-defense...

They were unconscious, that's the problem. They pick someone who is alone and knock them out and walk away. Unless a good samaritan happens to get involved I don't see how there can be much retaliation.

dseann said:

kpowers said:

I hope they all get knocked out

On the news I saw that proposed legislation would charge the offenders with a gang related offence, charge the children as adults and have them serve a minimum of 25 years. As a black man in my early 40's, I support this wholeheartedly. As a teenager (back in the 80's) I was concerned about smelling nice, having a tight haircut and bring dressed well enough to at least stick my finger in some willing girls panties. What the fuck is up with these young fools?

I'm for it. And when these fools go to prison they can play knock out all they want.

JustErin said:

dseann said:

On the news I saw that proposed legislation would charge the offenders with a gang related offence, charge the children as adults and have them serve a minimum of 25 years. As a black man in my early 40's, I support this wholeheartedly. As a teenager (back in the 80's) I was concerned about smelling nice, having a tight haircut and bring dressed well enough to at least stick my finger in some willing girls panties. What the fuck is up with these young fools?

When in the history of man has punishment really worked as a deterrent? Why can't we get it through our heads that reactive responses simply do not work. Let's just throw more people in jail.

Where are the proactive solutions?

[Edited 11/22/13 6:40am]

punishment is meant to be more than a deterrent... it's punishment

morningsong said:

The fact that the so-called "black leaders" of today and the "black organizations" are so quiet about this and about violence and corruption in black communities in general speaks volumes. Then again, I don't really expect them to say anything. But if they only say it when a non-black does it, I'm gonna call them out for the hypocrites they are.

MoBetterBliss said:

JustErin said:

When in the history of man has punishment really worked as a deterrent? Why can't we get it through our heads that reactive responses simply do not work. Let's just throw more people in jail.

Where are the proactive solutions?

[Edited 11/22/13 6:40am]

punishment is meant to be more than a deterrent... it's punishment

If you gonna do the crime expect to do the time.

I don't understand why people just blame the kids and just continue with their day as usual.

I think it's horrible that these kids even came up with the idea to spend their time like this. However, they are just part of a culture that reinforces bullying and violence.
.

* Police use violence against minorities without consequences.

http://www.miamiherald.co...tches.html

http://www.nydailynews.co...-1.1520456

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fKLOg7lBo_0

* Helping other people is criminallized

It's horrible to be poor and when I read this article, I was shocked.

http://www.nationofchange...1385105133

How can people be so judgemental towards homeless people? As if they were born with the ambition to not have the skills that are necessary to surviv

JustErin said:

dseann said:

On the news I saw that proposed legislation would charge the offenders with a gang related offence, charge the children as adults and have them serve a minimum of 25 years. As a black man in my early 40's, I support this wholeheartedly. As a teenager (back in the 80's) I was concerned about smelling nice, having a tight haircut and bring dressed well enough to at least stick my finger in some willing girls panties. What the fuck is up with these young fools?

When in the history of man has punishment really worked as a deterrent? Why can't we get it through our heads that reactive responses simply do not work. Let's just throw more people in jail.

Where are the proactive solutions?

There is no money in that. Prisons are very profitable for the people in charge.

Humanity is not on the top of a priority list of politicians.

dJJ said:

JustErin said:

When in the history of man has punishment really worked as a deterrent? Why can't we get it through our heads that reactive responses simply do not work. Let's just throw more people in jail.

Where are the proactive solutions?

There is no money in that. Prisons are very profitable for the people in charge.

Humanity is not on the top of a priority list of politicians.

Wow. I can't believe what people are actually capable of doing.

these guys look like evil extras in a Steven Seagal movie, lol

JustErin said:

dseann said:

On the news I saw that proposed legislation would charge the offenders with a gang related offence, charge the children as adults and have them serve a minimum of 25 years. As a black man in my early 40's, I support this wholeheartedly. As a teenager (back in the 80's) I was concerned about smelling nice, having a tight haircut and bring dressed well enough to at least stick my finger in some willing girls panties. What the fuck is up with these young fools?

When in the history of man has punishment really worked as a deterrent? Why can't we get it through our heads that reactive responses simply do not work. Let's just throw more people in jail.

Where are the proactive solutions?

[Edited 11/22/13 6:40am]

Punishment for my wrongdoings has always been my deterrent. Why should someone minding their own business have some FOOL punch them in the face? Why shouldn't the FOOL be punished?

dseann said:

JustErin said:

When in the history of man has punishment really worked as a deterrent? Why can't we get it through our heads that reactive responses simply do not work. Let's just throw more people in jail.

Where are the proactive solutions?

[Edited 11/22/13 6:40am]

Punishment for my wrongdoings has always been my deterrent. Why should someone minding their own business have some FOOL punch them in the face? Why shouldn't the FOOL be punished?

dseann said:

JustErin said:

When in the history of man has punishment really worked as a deterrent? Why can't we get it through our heads that reactive responses simply do not work. Let's just throw more people in jail.

Where are the proactive solutions?

[Edited 11/22/13 6:40am]

Punishment for my wrongdoings has always been my deterrent. Why should someone minding their own business have some FOOL punch them in the face? Why shouldn't the FOOL be punished?

What to do with a country inhabited with fools?

JoeTyler said:i'm surprised nobody has gunned them down already...in fear, self-defense...

NewsOne reported that a teen did get shot trying to knock someone out. He survived....unfortunately.

dJJ said:

dseann said:

Punishment for my wrongdoings has always been my deterrent. Why should someone minding their own business have some FOOL punch them in the face? Why shouldn't the FOOL be punished?

What to do with a country inhabited with fools?

You're selling your country short. Good ole U.S.A. isn't comprised of o foolish majority.

uPtoWnNY said:

JoeTyler said:i'm surprised nobody has gunned them down already...in fear, self-defense...

NewsOne reported that a teen did get shot trying to knock someone out. He survived....unfortunately.

Makes me wonder if he got shot because the shooter was fearful for his life. Dude must've been trying to hit him and he did what he had to do so he shot wherever. And yeah that punk lived to see the day doing an interview about it. "Uh I was bored, knowimsayin?"

[Edited 11/24/13 16:47pm]

Typical American knee jerk reaction...

Throwing people in jail and "throwing away the key" hasn't made the US any safer. We have always been a very, very, very violent society, always. Until we are willing to discuss this in a truthful manner, these types of stories shall continue. The American people accept and support violence but we have different rules for different people.Then we seem "shocked" when this violence doesn't stay in its own neat self contained little corner. As Malcolm stated 50 years ago this week, "The chickens have come home to roost." That being said....

I agree with Erin we need to ask and look at why these young people committed these cowardly and heinous acts. Don't get me wrong, these juveniles should face consequences but adult prison system isn't the answer. I'm hesitant to suggest a juvenile facility because these places are nothing but miniature reincarnation of the adult penal system. In many juvenile facilities draconian forms of official and non official punishments are supported in the hope these kids will be "scared straight." Most folks walk out of these facilities not reformed but more angrier and violent people. The vast majority of children aren't born "bad" and violence is a learned behavior, this shit isn't happening in a vacuum. (IMHO)

==================

[Edited 11/25/13 4:58am]

I'd lilke to see these half wits try this in Scotland. They'd get booted back across the Atlantic with a broken bottle stuck in their heads.

TD3 said:

Typical American knee jerk reaction...

Throwing people in jail and "throwing away the key" hasn't made the US any safer. We have always been a very, very, very violent society, always. Until we are willing to discuss this in a truthful manner, these types of stories shall continue. The American people accept and support violence but we have different rules for different people.Then we seem "shocked" when this violence doesn't stay in its own neat self contained little corner. As Malcolm stated 50 years ago this week, "The chickens have come home to roost." That being said....

I agree with Erin we need to ask and look at why these young people committed these cowardly and heinous acts. Don't get me wrong, these juveniles should face consequences but adult prison system isn't the answer. I'm hesitant to suggest a juvenile facility because these places are nothing but miniature reincarnation of the adult penal system. In many juvenile facilities draconian forms of official and non official punishments are supported in the hope these kids will be "scared straight." Most folks walk out of these facilities not reformed but more angrier and violent people. The vast majority of children aren't born "bad" and violence is a learned behavior, this shit isn't happening in a vacuum. (IMHO)

==================

[Edited 11/25/13 4:58am]

JustErin said:

kewlschool said:

Agreed, I also think it's lack of empathy for others and treating another person (Or picking on them) like a piece of shit gives them a sense of power over someone else. The victim is always viewed as less than human, so it's ok to treat them poorly.

You do realize though, that it is almost always a case of the bully also being a victim somewhere along the line himself, right? There is a reason why the bully is desperately looking for power over someone else.

Its just a vicious circle.

Agreed, however, we choose to react to our circumstances. I know 2 people that were in abusive marriages, now they are the ones that are the bullies.

The Prefrontal Coertex of the human brain which control cognitive empathy doesn't develop fully until the mid twenties. It's important that children are raised in environment that encourages empathy. There are also studies that show murderers and rapists tend to have an underdeveloped Prefrontal Cortex. Most crime is probably a result of brain disorders. We could be approaching the problem of crime in a horribly wrong direction.

This could also be the result of the decline of criminal organizations which provided the kind of structure or rites of passage for young males that was lacking in the larger community. We could be dealing with small group of teenagers who have no leadership or structure to guide them in any direction positive or negative. And what you get is straight up nihilistic behavior.

I know i am 22 and my opinion maybe seen as less valid. But, as someone who grew up in a rough area and saw my friends go to gangs, drugs, violence etc.

There are kids who could be the most innocent looking kid... and then do some incredibly sadistic shit. It can't always be blamed on parents for one. I know it's hard to hear but i knew kids who had amazing folks. Kids who got straight A's, attended school events, did charity drives, went to church with their family on wendsday and sunday etc. And they were involved in gangs... and involved in some drug parties.

Kids like that with straight A's, no bad behavior in school, and are respected students etc. Will probably get more trust from parents right? so when they say there going to Mark or Lisas house ont he weekend there really selling drugs and breaking knee caps. I knew lots of kids who did this and NOBODY would have suspected. And these kids were getting violent and roughing up a lot of people too.

Parents don't always know what kind of click there kids are with at school. Your best friend in high school could have been in an alternative click you didn't know about that was dong the knock-out game. It's not always easy to pin-point the types of people who would do this... or why.

Sometimes it's peer pressure, sometimes it's testosterone, sometimes it's bad parenting, sometimes it's something else.

There was a kid in our school who was on our football team (I was on the team but he was 2 years before me) and he was well known, attractive, All grade A student. Hungout with decent people and had a very good home life. And, one day he went and shot two old people and their grandson. Why? no one really knows... he was a cliche star athlete with no history of violence or mental issues so one would have suspected he would do this.

You can't always pin-point exactly where a kid is going wrong... or what every kid is learning from friends, school, outside sources etc.

It's a scary thought... but i think some people are just evil. I know everyone wants an explination for each human being that does evil things. But, i have seen kids who act perfect in social situations. Then, do some horrific acts. Some people too me are just evil and there is no changing that.