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Reply #210 posted 07/06/11 6:16pm

SUPRMAN

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MrSoulpower said:

SCNDLS said:

yeahthat How folks LOVE trotting OJ out to say "he's black and got off" as if he is representative of the average black defendant is completely ridiculous.

I love it how folks automatically assume that other folks "LOVE trotting OJ out to say "he's black and got off" as if he is representative of the average black defendant."

I used O.J. as an example not just because he was a minority, but because he was the last hi-profile murder case in America before the Casey Anthony case, and because he, too, got off. So maybe you should ask me first before making uninformed assumptions about my motives. Thank you.

The last high profile murder case before the Casey Anthony case?

No high profile murder trials since 1995?

Susan Smith's trial came after OJ's.

So did Timothy McVeigh's.

I don't want you to think like me. I just want you to think.
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Reply #211 posted 07/06/11 6:19pm

SUPRMAN

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HotGritz said:

MrSoulpower said:

This is at best evidence that she was aware of her child's death and covered it up.

But none of this is evidence that she killer her daughter. It's just one of the many conclusions you might draw from this ... but this conclusion wouldn't hold up in court, and it didn't.

Like I said, Caylee may have died from SIDS.

She may have drowned.

Her grandfather could have killed her.

She may have fallen from a tree and broken her neck.

The problem is that prosecutors could not even provide proof that Caylee was murdered.

Without that, you don't have a death penalty case. Prosecutors were either extremely stupid or overly confident - or both.

Again, I too think that she killer her daughter. But none of what you mentioned above is actual evidence that would support this theory.

Ok fair enough. But um...wasn't one of the other charges against Casey child neglect? How is it not neglect if you leave a 3 year old child unattended to either drown or fall out of a tree and break their neck then somehow that child just ends up in a body bag with duct tape over their mouth and buried in some swamp area? The jurors were a bunch of pea brains. I

Parents are not to prevent any and all accidents or mishaps a child can encounter. The fact that a child suffers injury is not prima facie neglect.

I don't want you to think like me. I just want you to think.
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Reply #212 posted 07/06/11 6:20pm

SUPRMAN

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HotGritz said:

minneapolisFunq said:

If only the rest of the country would look at things that way.

The public's emotional attachment to the case has clouded their judgement.

Honestly, I don't give a fuck either way. As bad as it sounds, she only killed her own child. If she had taken a life from an innocent family I would feel differently about the verdict.

So basically fuck that little dead girl cuz she wasn't really innocent?

Innocent people including children die and/or are killed everyday.

I don't want you to think like me. I just want you to think.
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Reply #213 posted 07/06/11 6:23pm

SUPRMAN

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minneapolisFunq said:

She (allegedly)killed her own child. She didn't harm anyone else's children.

How is it hard to understand why I think that makes things less of a public dilemma?

You don't have to like it.

It really doesn't matter either way because she is innocent.

No, she was found not guilty. That does not make one 'innocent.'

I don't want you to think like me. I just want you to think.
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Reply #214 posted 07/06/11 6:27pm

SUPRMAN

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Serena said:

jockeyb4u said:

What an insulting question. What normal person doesn't feel some sort of emotion when someone murders their child, and then to make matters worse, gets away with it. Regardless, if its on TV or not.

I can't think of any reason why you would ask this person a question like this other than just being a prick.

Yeah, he likes to throw out crap like that frequently. It is insulting, but I just ignore that part of it because he occasionally will discuss things rationally.

I have to object to your use of the word 'frequently.'

I found your response insulting and I responded in kind.

I should be a better man than that, but I'm not always sadly.

I don't want you to think like me. I just want you to think.
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Reply #215 posted 07/06/11 6:30pm

SUPRMAN

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Serena said:

TonyVanDam said:

According to THIS follow-up report, there were not any "tons" of solid evidences to begin with, hence why the D.A. office lost big time:

http://news.yahoo.com/anthony-trial-lack-evidence-good-defense-000636253.html

ORLANDO, Fla. (AP) — Prosecutors proved Casey Anthony was a liar, but convinced the jury of little else.

The government failed to establish how 2-year-old Caylee Anthony died and they couldn't find her mother's DNA on the duct tape they said was used to suffocate her. There was conflicting testimony on whether the putrid smell inside the family's car was a decomposing body or simply trash, and it was never quite clear why chloroform was so important.

The lack of evidence and the doubt raised by the defense — that Caylee accidentally drowned in the family's pool — was enough to win an acquittal. After a trial of a month and a half, the jury took less than 11 hours to find Anthony not guilty of first-degree murder, aggravated manslaughter and aggravated child abuse.

She was convicted only of four misdemeanor counts of lying to investigators who were looking into the June 2008 disappearance of Caylee. She lied about being employed at Universal Studios. She lied about leaving Caylee with a baby-sitter, then again when she recounted to investigators that she had told two imaginary people that Caylee was missing. She also lied about receiving a phone call from Caylee the day before she was reported missing.

Lead defense attorney Jose Baez was criticized by many legal pundits for his strategy and loosely throwing around allegations of molestation and incest. Baez suggested early on that Casey's father, George Anthony, helped cover up the drowning and sexually abused his daughter, accusations the father vehemently denied. Baez also claimed Casey's brother might be Caylee's father and that a meter reader who discovered the girl's remains may have moved them, more allegations that weren't substantiated.

Ultimately, though, the burden of proof wasn't on Baez.

"I don't think it was Baez' great lawyering that won the case," said Richard Rosenbaum, a Fort Lauderdale criminal defense attorney who closely followed the trial but wasn't involved in the case. "I think it goes back to the prosecution and the weaknesses in their case."

Kendall Coffey, a former U.S. attorney for Miami and now a defense attorney, said Baez had to offer an alternative to the prosecution's theory of how Caylee was killed, though he was less impressed with the molestation accusations.

"The biggest questions were the 'how' and the 'why,'" Coffey said. "Even the state acknowledged they weren't exactly sure of how Caylee was killed. That was a candid acknowledgement, but Baez seized on that."

Orlando's chief prosecutor said his attorneys were disappointed with the verdict but they presented every piece of evidence that existed.

"This is a dry-bones case. Very, very difficult to prove," said Orange County State Attorney Lawson Lamar. "The delay in recovering little Caylee's remains worked to our considerable disadvantage."

Shortly after Lamar's news conference, one of the lead prosecutors on the case, Jeff Ashton, announced he would retire at the end of the week following 30 years as a prosecutor. A spokeswoman for the prosecutor's office said Ashton and Lamar had previously discussed his retirement.

The six-month gap between when Casey was reported missing and when her remains were found in December 2008 affected the amount of scientific evidence investigators could glean from the pieces of bones, some as small as a pebble. And prosecutors didn't have any evidence that put Casey at the scene where the remains were found.

There was also confusion on why chloroform was so important. Chloroform is a chemical compound that can be used to knock someone unconscious and also is found in human decomposition, but prosecutors never made clear exactly what its role it played in Caylee's death.

Prosecutors said Casey searched for the term "chloroform" on the family's computer, though when her mother, Cindy, took the stand late in the trial, she said she searched for it. Later, job records indicated that Cindy might have been at work when the searches were made.

Then there was the smell test. After prosecutors presented an expert witness who said that a carpet stain taken from the family's car trunk had a smell consistent with a decomposing body, the defense called the expert's former colleague who testified to the opposite.

Baez addressed his naysayers during a press conference.

"This case has brought on new challenges for all of us. Challenges in the criminal justice system, challenges in the media, and I think we should all take this as an opportunity to learn and to realize that you cannot convict someone until they have had their day in court," he said.

Yale Galanter, who has represented O.J. Simpson in a number of cases since 2000, said he was not surprised by the verdict.

"The issue is there was absolutely no evidence linking her to the death. None," said the Miami lawyer. "So what the defense did was brilliant, they brought up the drowning, they brought up the sexual molestation, and it really got the jury to focus away from the bad behavior of the mom."

____

Lush reported from St. Petersburg. Associated Press writers Laura Wides-Munoz and Kelli Kennedy in Miami contributed to this report.

That's all BS and I'd believe an OJ attorney...ummm NEVER!

The Medical Examiner determined it was HOMICIDE, they don't have to prove how the homicide was committed, but she said it was duct tape. Who puts duct tape on a child that accidentally drowned? Of course there wouldn't be any DNA left, it was in a hot swamp for 6 months and would have decomposed. Quit listening to the red herrings thrown out and go examine the Discovery, Evidence, Depositions and Testimony instead of taking someone's word for it that didn't have anything to do with the case.

But that's not evidence.

Would the DNA have decomposed? At what rate? How much would have had to been present for it to be detectable when the remains were found?

If a Medical Examiner calls a death homicide, there has to be a cause of death. Homicide is not SIDS, natural causes or accidental drowning.

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Reply #216 posted 07/06/11 6:33pm

SUPRMAN

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Serena said:

babynoz said:

Right. Trying the case in the media isn't the same as inside the courtroom, trust me. In the article you posted for example, how can there be a smell of death in the car trunk and no dna evidence in there? Or how could they not find dna on the duct tape? And what about the experts who disagreed on the way the autopsy was done?

And all of attorneys and judges they have interviewed so far say the same thing. The State Attorney over-charged the case in the first place because they didn't have enough for a first degree case to begin with.

The defense didn't even seem that good but it seems the prosecution wasn't able to close up the gaping holes in their case.

The car still stunk 2 years later. There was no DNA found of ANYONE'S, because Mommy Dearest cleaned the fuck out of the car before it was examined by the Police. No prints or anything from the tow yard folks or Dad, who drove the car from the tow yard, nada. They did find a hair of Caylee's in the trunk which had a 'death band', meaning it can ONLY come from a deceased body. That baby was in the trunk, NO QUESTION about that. That's why Casey put a bag of trash in there (to try and excuse the smell), parked the car next to a dumpster when she abandoned it (again to cover the smell), called her friend (this was testified to in court) only to say that something must've died in her car (like a squirrel) because it smelled so bad.

See my other post regarding the (not an) autopsy.

All these facts that the jury ignored or didn't understand the Science involved, is why those of us who paid attention are upset.

Even if the jury didn't think it was 1st Degree, they should have at least charged her with 2nd degree or Aggravated child abuse.

The jury does not get to change the charges. The prosecution brings the charges. The jury can only work with what is presented.

She should have been charged with 2nd degree or aggravated child abuse.

I don't want you to think like me. I just want you to think.
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Reply #217 posted 07/06/11 6:40pm

Muse2NoPharaoh

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SUPRMAN said:

Serena said:

btw...Cindy testified to cleaning out the car and trunk because it stunk so bad, sprayed Fabreeze all over it and washed Casey's pants that were in there. She knows what evidence she destroyed to cover up for her evil child. Did any of you hear the 911 call where she said it smelled like a dead body had been in the car? She's A NURSE and knows what human decomposition smells like.

Objection.

How do we know that a nurse knows what human decomposition smells like?

Being a nurse does not equate to smelling human decomposition.

A nurse would be more likely to be exposed, but no given.

One anatomy class with cadavers present, in different states of decomposition which all nursing universities have, would stay with any nurse. Just like the scent of roadkill is instantly a recognizable scent. Its not very different then human decomposition and horrific in every way.

Well look whom I found dipping their toe in the murky waters! :eyeroll: At least offer me a damn cup of coffee!
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Reply #218 posted 07/06/11 6:43pm

The1592

vainandy said:

scriptgirl said:

It's a big deal because a mother killed her own child-that never stops being haunting

And then goes out and parties and celebrates. She's about one of the sorriest bitches I've ever seen.

You'd be surprised how many times a parent kills their child. I went on a news site the other day to read entertainment news, and all the top stories were either animals being tortured or children murdered by thier own parents... It's sad and sick, but not shocking in the least. neutral

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Reply #219 posted 07/06/11 7:08pm

SCNDLS

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Serena said:

spit Damn!

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Reply #220 posted 07/06/11 7:13pm

SCNDLS

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SUPRMAN said:

SCNDLS said:

yeahthat How folks LOVE trotting OJ out to say "he's black and got off" as if he is representative of the average black defendant is completely ridiculous.

Knowing he's the only exception to rule they know of.

nod True.

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Reply #221 posted 07/06/11 7:38pm

aardvark15

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SCNDLS said:

Serena said:

spit Damn!

lol lol nod

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"Insatiable's my name when it comes 2 u"
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Reply #222 posted 07/06/11 8:46pm

Serena

Ok, see this is one of the things the jury did wrong; Juror #3 who is on ABC tonight stated that they took the Death Penalty seriously & it weighed heavily on all their minds while deliberating. (paraphrased)

They were instructed NOT to consider ANY penalty yet, only the charges. Then, if they had decided on 1st degree, there would have been a Penalty Phase with additional testimony for a few days (meaning they would've been sequestered even longer). Then they would be tasked with deliberating on Death or Life Without Parole. If they had chosen one of the lesser charges, the judge would have sentenced the penalty accordingly.

THEY DIDN'T FOLLOW THEIR INSTRUCTIONS.

I think there needs to be changes made to the Jury System, especially when you have a sequestered jury that is anxious to get back home & to work. They either need to have 'professional jurists' for complicated/scientific cases especially, or maybe a 'jury coach' who helps them through the deliberation process, like getting them started, helping them follow the complicated instructions from the judge, etc..

Here's a link to the Instructions:

http://insession.blogs.cn...ony-trial/

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Reply #223 posted 07/06/11 8:52pm

smoothcriminal
12

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She should write a book called "If I Did It" about how she would go about murdering her daughter if she was going to do it. Bestseller.

[Edited 7/6/11 20:55pm]

My new album is available HERE: http://itunes.apple.com/a...mpt=uo%3D1
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Reply #224 posted 07/06/11 8:55pm

smoothcriminal
12

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Double post, ignore.

[Edited 7/6/11 20:56pm]

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Reply #225 posted 07/06/11 8:56pm

Serena

SUPRMAN said:

HotGritz said:

Casey's lawyer can kiss my cheeks! This mofo talking about her case was an example of why the death penalty doesn't work. eek the hell? So this bastard only took the case because it was capital murder and he has an agenda? The summabitchass doesn't give a fuck that there was no justice for a murdered baby girl? I say run his ass over with a dump truck and have Casey's stank ass being dragged from the rear tires. That goes for all these punk ass lawyers trying to make names for themselves and for all those slut bot bitches abusing and murdering their children. I swear.....God and evolution played chess and they both loss. Fuckin' human race aint shit!!!!

neutral

Ok i feel better now.

Her attorney cannot be there for justice for a murdered baby girl. The murdered baby girl is not his client. He did his sworn duty and obligation for his client. That's his job.

It doesn't matter if he had a secondary agenda, as long as it didn't interfere with his duty which was to defend his client and keep her from being executed. He succeeded admirably with a lot of help from the prosecution.

HotGritz, you're correct about Baez only taking this case for his own ego, his is the scummiest of the scum. Geraldo hangs out with him, that should tell you everything...well besides the fact that the Florida Bar would not admit him for 7 years because of the crappy way he runs his life. Unpaid child support, bankruptcy, foreclosures, etc.. Once he finally was admitted, he's had numerous complaints filed against him, one from the first judge in this case. Judge Perry also said during the trial that he would be finding him in Contempt once the trial was over, hopefully, he'll follow through on that.

SUPRman, how much of the trial did you watch? Baez was anything but admirable, the whole time the Judge had to teach him how to be an Attorney and present evidence. He got away with so much crap because they didn't want to leave any room for appeal (even the Judge KNOWS there was enough evidence to prove her guilty, as did the Grand Jury.) He played sleezy games all throughout the trial.

Here's the topper: not sure how long ago this was, but he and Casey got in trouble by the Sheriff's office for sharing a piece of licorice 'Lady and the Tramp' style while in a 'conference'. She hung out with him while she was out on bail, helping in his office, holding hands, etc..

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Reply #226 posted 07/06/11 8:57pm

The1592

smoothcriminal12 said:

She should write a book called "If I Did It" about how she would go about murdering her daughter if she was going to do it. Bestseller.

[Edited 7/6/11 20:55pm]

If she doesn't write some kind of book, I'll be shocked.

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Reply #227 posted 07/06/11 8:58pm

Serena

SUPRMAN said:

Empress said:

Take a look at OJ. He's black (last time I looked) and he got off with 2 murders. At least now, he's where he belongs.

As far as Casey, she will get what she deserves one day. A child is dead, so who killed her and who dumped the body? She did, but the state couldn't prove it. Same as OJ!

In both cases, we don't what either of them actually did.

I'm more sure that Casey killed her daughter than OJ killed anyone.

I think they both know who did it though.

Ok, now that I read this, I'm done trying to talk to you. OJ even confessed in his book, but you still don't believe him?!? lol

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Reply #228 posted 07/06/11 8:59pm

smoothcriminal
12

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Serena said:

SUPRMAN said:

In both cases, we don't what either of them actually did.

I'm more sure that Casey killed her daughter than OJ killed anyone.

I think they both know who did it though.

Ok, now that I read this, I'm done trying to talk to you. OJ even confessed in his book, but you still don't believe him?!? lol

That was not a confession....it was alternate history. lol

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Reply #229 posted 07/06/11 9:01pm

RKJCNE

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MrSoulpower said:

RKJCNE said:

Exactly, however the fact that she got off of the neglet charges is beyond me.

Like I said above, from what I have seen presented in trial, the circumstances around Caylee's disappearance are very unclear and circumstancial at best. Was there hard evidence that Cayless disappeared while she was with her mother? Could she have been with the grandparents or a third party? I think the fact that family members lied on stand about numerous issues makes it hard for the jury to come to a valid conclusion about what happened.

Ignoring her missing child for 31 days seems like evidence enough for me. In just about any hypothetical story her not getting the police involved is serious neglect for her child.

It's crazy to me that we will never know what happened. So many holes in the stories, so many different stories.

2012: The Queen Returns
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Reply #230 posted 07/06/11 9:03pm

Serena

SUPRMAN said:

Serena said:

Yeah, he likes to throw out crap like that frequently. It is insulting, but I just ignore that part of it because he occasionally will discuss things rationally.

I have to object to your use of the word 'frequently.'

I found your response insulting and I responded in kind.

I should be a better man than that, but I'm not always sadly.

Objection Overruled! lol

I wasn't being insulting to X, just said that yes, I was emotionally involved in the case. shrug

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Reply #231 posted 07/06/11 9:04pm

The1592

RKJCNE said:

MrSoulpower said:

Like I said above, from what I have seen presented in trial, the circumstances around Caylee's disappearance are very unclear and circumstancial at best. Was there hard evidence that Cayless disappeared while she was with her mother? Could she have been with the grandparents or a third party? I think the fact that family members lied on stand about numerous issues makes it hard for the jury to come to a valid conclusion about what happened.

Ignoring her missing child for 31 days seems like evidence enough for me. In just about any hypothetical story her not getting the police involved is serious neglect for her child.

It's crazy to me that we will never know what happened. So many holes in the stories, so many different stories.

Yeah, even if she didn't murder her child, it should be a very serious crime to be legally responsible for a child, not know where your child is, an go a month without reporting it. That might not neccesarily be evidence of murder, but it should be a serious crime itself.

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Reply #232 posted 07/06/11 9:09pm

Serena

SUPRMAN said:

Serena said:

That's all BS and I'd believe an OJ attorney...ummm NEVER!

The Medical Examiner determined it was HOMICIDE, they don't have to prove how the homicide was committed, but she said it was duct tape. Who puts duct tape on a child that accidentally drowned? Of course there wouldn't be any DNA left, it was in a hot swamp for 6 months and would have decomposed. Quit listening to the red herrings thrown out and go examine the Discovery, Evidence, Depositions and Testimony instead of taking someone's word for it that didn't have anything to do with the case.

But that's not evidence.

Would the DNA have decomposed? At what rate? How much would have had to been present for it to be detectable when the remains were found?

If a Medical Examiner calls a death homicide, there has to be a cause of death. Homicide is not SIDS, natural causes or accidental drowning.

I can't explain all the decomp stuff to you, but ALL of that was explained by various experts in court.

The Cause of Death was Homicide, determined by the ME. The MANNER of Death was 'undetermined', but could have been caused by the duct tape obstructing airways. BUT, the Manner of Death does NOT have to be determined and sometimes never can be, especially with only skeletal remains. Only the CAUSE is what the jury is supposed to use in the deliberations. Heck, they get guilty verdicts with NO BODY, so they sure can't determine Manner of Death in those cases.

[Edited 7/6/11 21:13pm]

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Reply #233 posted 07/06/11 9:12pm

SUPRMAN

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Serena said:

Ok, see this is one of the things the jury did wrong; Juror #3 who is on ABC tonight stated that they took the Death Penalty seriously & it weighed heavily on all their minds while deliberating. (paraphrased)

They were instructed NOT to consider ANY penalty yet, only the charges. Then, if they had decided on 1st degree, there would have been a Penalty Phase with additional testimony for a few days (meaning they would've been sequestered even longer). Then they would be tasked with deliberating on Death or Life Without Parole. If they had chosen one of the lesser charges, the judge would have sentenced the penalty accordingly.

THEY DIDN'T FOLLOW THEIR INSTRUCTIONS.

I think there needs to be changes made to the Jury System, especially when you have a sequestered jury that is anxious to get back home & to work. They either need to have 'professional jurists' for complicated/scientific cases especially, or maybe a 'jury coach' who helps them through the deliberation process, like getting them started, helping them follow the complicated instructions from the judge, etc..

Here's a link to the Instructions:

http://insession.blogs.cn...ony-trial/

Thank you for the link.

The prosecution never proved Fla §782.04(a)(2).

§ 782.04(1)(a), Fla. Stat.

There are two ways in which a person may be convicted of first degree murder. One is known as premeditated murder and the other is known as felony murder. In order to find the defendant guilty of murder in the first degree, the State must convince you beyond a reasonable doubt of the defendant’s guilt of either premeditated murder or felony murder. While you must all agree that the State has proven first degree murder beyond a reasonable doubt, you need not be unanimous in your opinion as to whether that finding is based upon premeditated murder or felony murder as I shall now define those terms.

To prove the crime of First Degree Premeditated Murder, the State must prove the following three elements beyond a reasonable doubt:

1. Caylee Marie Anthony is dead.

2. The death was caused by the criminal act of Casey Marie Anthony.

3. There was a premeditated killing of Caylee Marie Anthony.

An “act” includes a series of related actions arising from and performed pursuant to a single design or purpose.

http://insession.blogs.cn...ony-trial/

(superfluous I know).

So the the case for the jury NEVER rose to the consideration of murder. You have possible motives but you don't see a series of actions that inevitably lead to Caylee's death.

Reading further,

FELONY MURDER – FIRST DEGREE

§ 782.04(1)(a), Fla. Stat.

To prove the crime of First Degree Felony Murder, the State must prove the following three elements beyond a reasonable doubt:

1. Caylee Marie Anthony is dead.

2. The death occurred as a consequence of and while Casey Marie Anthony was engaged in the commission of Aggravated Child Abuse.

Or

The death occurred as a consequence of and while Casey Marie Anthony was attempting to commit Aggravated Child Abuse.

3. Casey Marie Anthony was the person who actually killed Caylee Marie Anthony.

In order to convict of First Degree Felony Murder, it is not necessary for the State to prove that the defendant had a premeditated design or intent to kill.

So toss this one out the window too, as the prosecution again fails to meet the minimal legal requirement to open a debate on murder.

You have no evidence or testimony of Caylee ever being abused. So bye bye aggravated child abuse, and as you don't know the cause of death, you can't talk about any abuse preceding her death.

Where running out of felonies here, but this one only has a two prongs;

AGGRAVATED MANSLAUGHTER OF A CHILD

§ 782.07, Fla. Stat.

To prove the crime of Aggravated Manslaughter of a Child, the State must prove the following two elements beyond a reasonable doubt:

1. Caylee Marie Anthony is dead.

2. Casey Marie Anthony’s act(s) caused the death of Caylee Marie Anthony.

Or

The death of Caylee Marie Anthony was caused by the culpable negligence of Casey Marie Anthony.

I will now define "culpable negligence" for you. Each of us has a duty to act reasonably toward others. If there is a violation of that duty, without any conscious intention to harm, that violation is negligence. But culpable negligence is more than a failure to use ordinary care toward others. In order for negligence to be culpable, it must be gross and flagrant. Culpable negligence is a course of conduct showing reckless disregard of human life, or of the safety of persons exposed to its dangerous effects, or such an entire want of care as to raise a presumption of a conscious indifference to consequences, or which shows wantonness or recklessness, or a grossly careless disregard of the safety and welfare of the public, or such an indifference to the rights of others as is equivalent to an intentional violation of such rights. The negligent act or omission must have been committed with an utter disregard for the safety of others. Culpable negligence is consciously doing an act or following a course of conduct that the defendant must have known, or reasonably should have known, was likely to cause death or great bodily injury.

If you find the defendant guilty of Aggravated Manslaughter of a Child, you must then determine whether the State has further proved beyond a reasonable doubt that Caylee Marie Anthony was a child whose death was caused by the neglect of Casey Marie Anthony, a caregiver. “Child” means any person under the age of 18 years.

Prosecution couldn't show culpable negligence despite the babysitter stories, the accidental drowning story, the partying, the tattoo or the delay in reporting her missing.

Prosecution couldn't even show Casey did anything that led to Casey's death.

So, bye bye death penalty and life without parole, we may be out of serious felonies.

The other felony charges are versions of those above. That is showing serious desperation to throw any and everything at her.

This is maybe the minimal standard;

FELONY MURDER – THIRD DEGREE

§ 782.04(4), Fla. Stat.

To prove the crime of Third Degree Felony Murder, the State must prove the following three elements beyond a reasonable doubt:

1. Caylee Marie Anthony is dead.

2. The death occurred as a consequence of and while Casey Marie Anthony was engaged in the commission of Child Abuse.

or

The death occurred as a consequence of and while Casey Marie Anthony was attempting to commit Child Abuse.

3. Casey Marie Anthony was the person who actually killed Caylee Marie Anthony.

It is not necessary for the State to prove the killing was perpetrated with a design to effect death.

Oops, didn't try to prove the child abuse element of any of the charges . .

So why are people more upset with Casey?

[Edited 7/6/11 21:24pm]

I don't want you to think like me. I just want you to think.
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Reply #234 posted 07/06/11 9:17pm

Serena

The1592 said:

RKJCNE said:

Ignoring her missing child for 31 days seems like evidence enough for me. In just about any hypothetical story her not getting the police involved is serious neglect for her child.

It's crazy to me that we will never know what happened. So many holes in the stories, so many different stories.

Yeah, even if she didn't murder her child, it should be a very serious crime to be legally responsible for a child, not know where your child is, an go a month without reporting it. That might not neccesarily be evidence of murder, but it should be a serious crime itself.

This is going on:

http://blogs.wsj.com/law/...al-frenzy/

And I just read that a Florida representative is going to introduce a bill making it a Felony to not report a missing child.

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Reply #235 posted 07/06/11 9:19pm

Serena

SUPRMAN said:

Serena said:

The car still stunk 2 years later. There was no DNA found of ANYONE'S, because Mommy Dearest cleaned the fuck out of the car before it was examined by the Police. No prints or anything from the tow yard folks or Dad, who drove the car from the tow yard, nada. They did find a hair of Caylee's in the trunk which had a 'death band', meaning it can ONLY come from a deceased body. That baby was in the trunk, NO QUESTION about that. That's why Casey put a bag of trash in there (to try and excuse the smell), parked the car next to a dumpster when she abandoned it (again to cover the smell), called her friend (this was testified to in court) only to say that something must've died in her car (like a squirrel) because it smelled so bad.

See my other post regarding the (not an) autopsy.

All these facts that the jury ignored or didn't understand the Science involved, is why those of us who paid attention are upset.

Even if the jury didn't think it was 1st Degree, they should have at least charged her with 2nd degree or Aggravated child abuse.

The jury does not get to change the charges. The prosecution brings the charges. The jury can only work with what is presented.

She should have been charged with 2nd degree or aggravated child abuse.

No, they couldn't make up their own, but they COULD choose from the charges that were given to them.

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Reply #236 posted 07/06/11 9:20pm

Serena

Muse2NoPharaoh said:

SUPRMAN said:

Objection.

How do we know that a nurse knows what human decomposition smells like?

Being a nurse does not equate to smelling human decomposition.

A nurse would be more likely to be exposed, but no given.

One anatomy class with cadavers present, in different states of decomposition which all nursing universities have, would stay with any nurse. Just like the scent of roadkill is instantly a recognizable scent. Its not very different then human decomposition and horrific in every way.

Thank you. She even testified that she knew what it smelled like.

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Reply #237 posted 07/06/11 9:28pm

SUPRMAN

avatar

The1592 said:

RKJCNE said:

Ignoring her missing child for 31 days seems like evidence enough for me. In just about any hypothetical story her not getting the police involved is serious neglect for her child.

It's crazy to me that we will never know what happened. So many holes in the stories, so many different stories.

Yeah, even if she didn't murder her child, it should be a very serious crime to be legally responsible for a child, not know where your child is, an go a month without reporting it. That might not neccesarily be evidence of murder, but it should be a serious crime itself.

I read the jury instructions and the prosecution could have still gotten murder if they could have shown child abuse, or suggested that is why she hid Caylee after she killed her, even if accidentally they could get murder w/ the child abuse. But I don't think they ever tried to prove that element of a lot of the charges they brought. Which makes no sense, to allege it and never show the jury why you charged her with that crime.

I don't want you to think like me. I just want you to think.
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Reply #238 posted 07/06/11 9:29pm

The1592

Serena said:

The1592 said:

Yeah, even if she didn't murder her child, it should be a very serious crime to be legally responsible for a child, not know where your child is, an go a month without reporting it. That might not neccesarily be evidence of murder, but it should be a serious crime itself.

This is going on:

http://blogs.wsj.com/law/...al-frenzy/

And I just read that a Florida representative is going to introduce a bill making it a Felony to not report a missing child.

I'm surprised that's not already a law. Hopefully it's not just Florida that passes the law, but the entire US.

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Reply #239 posted 07/06/11 9:29pm

SUPRMAN

avatar

Serena said:

SUPRMAN said:

But that's not evidence.

Would the DNA have decomposed? At what rate? How much would have had to been present for it to be detectable when the remains were found?

If a Medical Examiner calls a death homicide, there has to be a cause of death. Homicide is not SIDS, natural causes or accidental drowning.

I can't explain all the decomp stuff to you, but ALL of that was explained by various experts in court.

The Cause of Death was Homicide, determined by the ME. The MANNER of Death was 'undetermined', but could have been caused by the duct tape obstructing airways. BUT, the Manner of Death does NOT have to be determined and sometimes never can be, especially with only skeletal remains. Only the CAUSE is what the jury is supposed to use in the deliberations. Heck, they get guilty verdicts with NO BODY, so they sure can't determine Manner of Death in those cases.

[Edited 7/6/11 21:13pm]

But no one uses a Medical Examiner as an expert in those cases.

I don't want you to think like me. I just want you to think.
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