So I have this friend.... we're good mates, have loads in common, spend lot of time at work emailing and phoning, we text eachother outside of work, we both flirt (a lot), basically we get on really, really well. We often get asked if there's something going on because of the way we are together.

Now the problem, I've completely fallen for him but he doesn't feel the same. Says he loves spending time with me but doesn't find me attractive. I'm really struggling with this. I'm attracted to him - the whole person - not the way he looks but he just can't understand that, seems that looks are the most important thing to him, how f-ing shallow! He even texts me to say he misses me FFS but still says he doesn't want anything else!

Just needed to get that rant out of my system

How long have you 2 known each other?

You want a relationship he does not so just remain good friends.

He actually told you he doesn't find you attractive? Those were his words?

No ... all men are not

Thank goodness

We've known each other over a year.

And yes, he actually said he doesn't find me attractive and that there's nothing he can do change that. Bit of a kick in the teeth! Wouldn't mind but he's no Johnny Depp, it's him that I really like. I'm no model but don't think I'm that bad!

Not having someone find you attractive doesn't mean they are shallow.

If it's not there, it's not there. You can't be upset at him for that.

I don't think it has anything to do with being shallow. Would you really want to pursue a relationship with someone you're not attracted to at all?

Physical attraction is a strange thing. It's not usually something you can switch on or off, it's just either there or it isn't. Even though I'm sure it's hurtful to hear that he's not attracted to you, at least he's honest about it (so that you can accept a pure friendship or move on).

JustErin said:

Not having someone find you attractive doesn't mean they are shallow.

If it's not there, it's not there. You can't be upset at him for that.

Great minds...

retina said:

I don't think it has anything to do with being shallow. Would you really want to pursue a relationship with someone you're not attracted to at all?

Physical attraction is a strange thing. It's not usually something you can switch on or off, it's just either there or it isn't. Even though I'm sure it's hurtful to hear that he's not attracted to you, at least he's honest about it (so that you can accept a pure friendship or move on).

Exactly.

retina said:

JustErin said:

Not having someone find you attractive doesn't mean they are shallow.

If it's not there, it's not there. You can't be upset at him for that.

Great minds...

retina said:

JustErin said:

Not having someone find you attractive doesn't mean they are shallow.

If it's not there, it's not there. You can't be upset at him for that.

Great minds...

Yeah I hear what you're both saying - we've had the very same conversation.

I'm more upset than upset with him if that makes sense. I just find it frustrating that I didn't find him attractive at all when we first met (apart from his cute bum) but that's changed as we've got to know eachother. I suppose I'm frustrated that the same hasn't happened for him.

Mutual friends find it hard to believe he isn't interested because of how he is with me, but if he isn't he just isn't.

JustErin said:

Not having someone find you attractive doesn't mean they are shallow.

If it's not there, it's not there. You can't be upset at him for that.

I totally agree with that part. There are millions of reasons people do and do not have chemistry together. It can be there for one person and not for the other, and it doesn't mean one of them is shallow, nor does it mean the other one is unattractive. It's just there or it's not there.

I think telling someone "I don't find you attractive" is juvenile and mean, though.

starfish100 said:

retina said:

Great minds...

Yeah I hear what you're both saying - we've had the very same conversation.

I'm more upset than upset with him if that makes sense. I just find it frustrating that I didn't find him attractive at all when we first met (apart from his cute bum) but that's changed as we've got to know eachother. I suppose I'm frustrated that the same hasn't happened for him.

Mutual friends find it hard to believe he isn't interested because of how he is with me, but if he isn't he just isn't.

I know it's upsetting, I know exactly what it's like to feel that way.

Efan said:

JustErin said:

Not having someone find you attractive doesn't mean they are shallow.

If it's not there, it's not there. You can't be upset at him for that.

I totally agree with that part. There are millions of reasons people do and do not have chemistry together. It can be there for one person and not for the other, and it doesn't mean one of them is shallow, nor does it mean the other one is unattractive. It's just there or it's not there.

I think telling someone "I don't find you attractive" is juvenile and mean, though.

But how is it juvenile and mean? It's the reason why he doesn't want more. He was just being honest.

I would rather hear that then some bullshit like, "I'm just not interested in being with anyone right now" then see him go off with some other chick.

JustErin said:

Efan said:

I totally agree with that part. There are millions of reasons people do and do not have chemistry together. It can be there for one person and not for the other, and it doesn't mean one of them is shallow, nor does it mean the other one is unattractive. It's just there or it's not there.

I think telling someone "I don't find you attractive" is juvenile and mean, though.

But how is it juvenile and mean? It's the reason why he doesn't want more. He was just being honest.

I would rather hear that then some bullshit like, "I'm just not interested in being with anyone right now" then see him go off with some other chick.

Yeah I agree with you, I'm glad he's been honest with me. At least that way we can carry on being friends. I can't be angry with him for being honest.

JustErin said:

starfish100 said:

Yeah I hear what you're both saying - we've had the very same conversation.

I'm more upset than upset with him if that makes sense. I just find it frustrating that I didn't find him attractive at all when we first met (apart from his cute bum) but that's changed as we've got to know eachother. I suppose I'm frustrated that the same hasn't happened for him.

Mutual friends find it hard to believe he isn't interested because of how he is with me, but if he isn't he just isn't.

I know it's upsetting, I know exactly what it's like to feel that way.

It is very upsetting. At work he rings me before 8.30 every day, he buys me cakes as a treat, we go to gigs etc together, he comes over for dinner, he texts me when he's out with his mates to ask how I'm doing (I do struggle with that, especially saying he's missing me), I could go on and on.

It's hard to come to terms with that all that wasn't leading someone.

JustErin said:

Take it from someone who knows all too well:

If you cannot deal with your feelings for him, end the friendship. You don't want to be stuck wishing for it to be between the two of you.

And the things you two do together do not sound like relationship things to me. That is how I am with both my male and female friends. Men need to have relationships like the one you and your friend share. If he means a lot to you, deal with your feelings and keep your friendship. I've done it. it can be done.

And to answer your question: yes, some men are indeed shallow.But, it is altogether possible that you are not your friend's type physically. if you've known he for so long, then you know what type of woman he likes.

I wish you some comfort for your aching heart.

JustErin said:

Efan said:

I totally agree with that part. There are millions of reasons people do and do not have chemistry together. It can be there for one person and not for the other, and it doesn't mean one of them is shallow, nor does it mean the other one is unattractive. It's just there or it's not there.

I think telling someone "I don't find you attractive" is juvenile and mean, though.

But how is it juvenile and mean? It's the reason why he doesn't want more. He was just being honest.

I would rather hear that then some bullshit like, "I'm just not interested in being with anyone right now" then see him go off with some other chick.

There are better and more mature ways to say things. "I think you're great, but I just don't feel that way about you" or something like that. When someone tells you they want more than a friendship, it's a compliment. "I don't find you attractive" is an insult. The other guy doesn't have to be dishonest, but paying a compliment back with an insult is what assholes do.

Efan said:

JustErin said:

But how is it juvenile and mean? It's the reason why he doesn't want more. He was just being honest.

I would rather hear that then some bullshit like, "I'm just not interested in being with anyone right now" then see him go off with some other chick.

There are better and more mature ways to say things. "I think you're great, but I just don't feel that way about you" or something like that. When someone tells you they want more than a friendship, it's a compliment. "I don't find you attractive" is an insult. The other guy doesn't have to be dishonest, but paying a compliment back with an insult is what assholes do.

But here is the thing. Women love a challenge. Say "I don't feel that way about you" to most women and she hears, "I don't feel that way about you right now, but I just haven't realized how awesome you really are, so hang in there and give me more time and I will eventually come around".

But, "I'm not attracted to you". Well, that ends it right there.

I'd rather hear the latter.

JustErin said:

Not having someone find you attractive doesn't mean they are shallow.

If it's not there, it's not there. You can't be upset at him for that.

Exactly

JustErin said:

Efan said:

There are better and more mature ways to say things. "I think you're great, but I just don't feel that way about you" or something like that. When someone tells you they want more than a friendship, it's a compliment. "I don't find you attractive" is an insult. The other guy doesn't have to be dishonest, but paying a compliment back with an insult is what assholes do.

But here is the thing. Women love a challenge. Say "I don't feel that way about you" to most women and she hears, "I don't feel that way about you right now, but I just haven't realized how awesome you really are, so hang in there and give me more time and I will eventually come around".

But, "I'm not attracted to you". Well, that ends it right there.

I'd rather hear the latter.

Yeah. Maybe it's just me. Also, the way you put it here I can totally get onboard with. It's nuance. "I'm not attracted to you" is just slightly enough different from "I don't find you attractive." Maybe it's just me, but the nuance of the language changes it from "You're not attractive" to "This is how I feel and it is not a shortcoming of yours at all."

Efan said:

JustErin said:

But here is the thing. Women love a challenge. Say "I don't feel that way about you" to most women and she hears, "I don't feel that way about you right now, but I just haven't realized how awesome you really are, so hang in there and give me more time and I will eventually come around".

But, "I'm not attracted to you". Well, that ends it right there.

I'd rather hear the latter.

Yeah. Maybe it's just me. Also, the way you put it here I can totally get onboard with. It's nuance. "I'm not attracted to you" is just slightly enough different from "I don't find you attractive." Maybe it's just me, but the nuance of the language changes it from "You're not attractive" to "This is how I feel and it is not a shortcoming of yours at all."

Right. No one wants to basically hear, "You're ugly to me."

JustErin said:

Efan said:

Yeah. Maybe it's just me. Also, the way you put it here I can totally get onboard with. It's nuance. "I'm not attracted to you" is just slightly enough different from "I don't find you attractive." Maybe it's just me, but the nuance of the language changes it from "You're not attractive" to "This is how I feel and it is not a shortcoming of yours at all."

Right. No one wants to basically hear, "You're ugly to me."

Exactly. Especially when you've probably been doing your utmost to make yourself look attractive to that person. Jesus, human beings (read: me) can be so fucked up (I say this after having been in starfish's shoes more than once).

Efan said:

JustErin said:

But here is the thing. Women love a challenge. Say "I don't feel that way about you" to most women and she hears, "I don't feel that way about you right now, but I just haven't realized how awesome you really are, so hang in there and give me more time and I will eventually come around".

But, "I'm not attracted to you". Well, that ends it right there.

I'd rather hear the latter.

Yeah. Maybe it's just me. Also, the way you put it here I can totally get onboard with. It's nuance. "I'm not attracted to you" is just slightly enough different from "I don't find you attractive." Maybe it's just me, but the nuance of the language changes it from "You're not attractive" to "This is how I feel and it is not a shortcoming of yours at all."

You are so right. I'm embarrassed to say we did have conversation some months ago where he said I was an amazing person and a really good friend - looking back this was probably his gentle way of telling me.

Co-signing with both Justerin and Retina... now MY opinion.

Sounds like to me that this man is trying to be your genuine friend. His motives were not to use you for meeting other women, or using you for sex. He was honest, even though it came off as brutal honesty because it was something you didn't want to hear.

Sounds like you are simply scorned. Your motives are NOT to be his friend but to make him your lover.

You are not his friend, you could never be a real friend to him because you will be angry if he moves on and finds love without you.

My advice? Leave him alone so he can find a real friend that doesn't have ulterior motive. Let him be friends with another person who wants to just be friends, and you should move on to find someone that will love and share with you mutually. You deserve nothing less, so don't short change yourself because you are shallow and want this cute guy to be your man.

I apologize for sounding brutal, but IMHO I think you are only going to prolong and compound any pain you are feeling if you pursue this "friendship" any longer.

Leave him alone until you mature enough to be able to be a real friend to him and not want him to fulfill YOUR needs.

I take all this back if he you and him have been intimate, he is a selfish asshole if you both did have sex then he did all these things you say, until then.... YOU are the one being selfish, and shallow.

If you feel a need to rake me over hot coals over this post that's fine. I wish I could tell you this in person because in writing it sounds like I am cold and bitchy... sorry if this hurts you.

paintedlady said:

Co-signing with both Justerin and Retina... now MY opinion.

Sounds like to me that this man is trying to be your genuine friend. His motives were not to use you for meeting other women, or using you for sex. He was honest, even though it came off as brutal honesty because it was something you didn't want to hear.

Sounds like you are simply scorned. Your motives are NOT to be his friend but to make him your lover.

You are not his friend, you could never be a real friend to him because you will be angry if he moves on and finds love without you.

My advice? Leave him alone so he can find a real friend that doesn't have ulterior motive. Let him be friends with another person who wants to just be friends, and you should move on to find someone that will love and share with you mutually. You deserve nothing less, so don't short change yourself because you are shallow and want this cute guy to be your man.

I apologize for sounding brutal, but IMHO I think you are only going to prolong and compound any pain you are feeling if you pursue this "friendship" any longer.

Leave him alone until you mature enough to be able to be a real friend to him and not want him to fulfill YOUR needs.

I take all this back if he you and him have been intimate, he is a selfish asshole if you both did have sex then he did all these things you say, until then.... YOU are the one being selfish, and shallow.

If you feel a need to rake me over hot coals over this post that's fine. I wish I could tell you this in person because in writing it sounds like I am cold and bitchy... sorry if this hurts you.

Ouch

Hold on a sec, she didn't befriend him to get him to be her bf. She is not being dishonest with him. She said that they were friends and her feelings developed over time. This shit happens all the time and I don't think that it's reason to end a friendship.

I think he can still be a real friend, it is possible to move on from feelings like this.

She just needs to figure out if it's possible for her to move on from her feelings.

JustErin said:

Hold on a sec, she didn't befriend him to get him to be her bf. She is not being dishonest with him. She said that they were friends and her feelings developed over time. This shit happens all the time and I don't think that it's reason to end a friendship.

I think he can still be a real friend, it is possible to move on from feelings like this.

She just needs to figure out if it's possible for her to move on from her feelings.

You talk a lot of sense.

You've made me realise I can't be angry with him for the way he feels, I can be frustrated but I can't be angry. Thank you.

We have theatre tickets for Saturday, we're still going and I'll have to decide from there if I can continue to be his friend. I truely hope I can.