What killed Pontiac? GM done with brand

NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) -- The Pontiac car brand, once marketed as General Motors' "excitement division," will be killed off by the end of next year, the carmaker announced Monday.

The decision to shutter Pontiac was one of several aggressive steps GM spelled out in an updated survival plan Monday. The government has given the company until the end of next month to restructure and slim down in order to survive.

The new GM will focus on four core brands: Chevrolet, Buick, GMC and Cadillac.

The fate of three other troubled lines -- Saturn, Saab and Hummer -- will be decided at a later date, GM said. They are likely to be sold off or shut down, while Pontiac will be shuttered.

Pontiac's problem was not sales, GM Chief Executive Fritz Henderson indicated during a conference call Monday. In 2008, Pontiac was the company's third-best selling brand behind Chevrolet and GMC and sold twice as many vehicles as Buick, a brand that will apparently survive the changes at GM.

The problem for Pontiac has been profitability. GM doesn't generally break out profits by brand, but Buick and GMC, which are sold in dealerships alongside Pontiacs, are more profitable, Henderson said.

"We didn't have a strategy that we were satisfied with that would allow us to win with the Pontiac brand," he said.

Roots in the 1950s
Pontiac's identity as a "performance" brand dates back to the late 1950s and early 1960s. Pontiac cars were designed with wider bodies for cosmetic reasons and the wheels were pushed out to match. This "wide-track" design became a selling point and was advertised as giving Pontiac cars a distinct cornering advantage over other cars.

The idea of Pontiac as a performance brand was solidified in 1964 with the creation of the Pontiac Tempest LeMans GTO. That car quickly evolved into the GTO and is often credited with creating a new class of American car, the muscle car.

"There was a time, a long way back now, when you knew exactly what Pontiac stood for," said Kevin Smith, editorial director for the automotive Web site Edmunds.com.

More recently, under vice chairman Bob Lutz, GM tried to revive Pontiac's image.

One strategy floated for Pontiac was to sell only, or mostly, rear-wheel-drive cars. That would have set it apart from other GM divisions, and most cars sold in America. Rear-wheel-drive is associated with performance brands like BMW.

Unfortunately, the 2004 model year reintroduction of the Pontiac GTO name on a performance coupe imported from Australia didn't result in big sales. So far, the Pontiac G8, a rear-wheel-drive four-door sedan also imported from GM's Australian Holden division, hasn't been a sales success either despite good reviews.

Pontiac's most popular products remain the G6, a decent but unexciting midsize car available as a sedan, coupe or convertible, and the Vibe, a small wagon shared with Toyota, which sells it as the Matrix.

Any plans to return Pontiac to the heavy-horsepower days of the 1970s ended as gas prices rose and Congress prepared stricter fuel economy rules for the industry.

In response to those pressures, GM quietly introduced the Pontiac G3, which had been sold in Canada only. Once again, Pontiac was selling a rebadged Chevrolet product, this time the Korean-built Aveo subcompact car.

Pontiac's lack of focus as a brand may finally have brought its demise, said Smith. "That's just death in a marketplace where there's so much competition and so much quality," he said.

I NEVER understood the appeal of this brand.

You don't need directions and you don't need cash. From your Jimmy Choos to your Ultralash. ~ Prince
And when the groove is dead and gone, you know that Love survives so we can rock FOREVER. ~ RIP MJ

You mean APART from the fact that they made shit cars?

mdiver said:

You mean APART from the fact that they made shit cars?

mdiver said:

You mean APART from the fact that they made shit cars?

I have never been a fan of the Pontiac brand. The designs never appealed to me. The only Pontiac I have liked in recent years has been the 2 seater sports car.



I do like GM products, though. I have owned 3 and I have never had any major issues with them. I really love their trucks and Cadillac line. I also like the Hummer line.

I was listening to the TJMS this morning and Sheryl Underwood made some great comments regarding Pontiac.
http://v3.player.abacast....diainc.asx

daPrettyman said:

I have never been a fan of the Pontiac brand. The designs never appealed to me. The only Pontiac I have liked in recent years has been the 2 seater sports car.



I do like GM products, though. I have owned 3 and I have never had any major issues with them. I really love their trucks and Cadillac line. I also like the Hummer line.

I was listening to the TJMS this morning and Sheryl Underwood made some great comments regarding Pontiac.
http://v3.player.abacast....diainc.asx

You don't need directions and you don't need cash. From your Jimmy Choos to your Ultralash. ~ Prince
And when the groove is dead and gone, you know that Love survives so we can rock FOREVER. ~ RIP MJ

They call this.....foreshadowing.

Market saturation. That combined with GM's idea of building across Models with the same basic design (Traverse, Outlook, Acadia for example)

The G8 is a legit auto, however, and might end up being the basis for the new Impala. The G6 was popular because it was a spacious car for a great price. Men could fit in it and not look less masculine.

There is a place for a retro Olds and a Pontiac, though. It would be cool if GM could out fit an old plant to build limited run autos.

The thing that kills me is that they have pretty much abandoned the Mini-Van market. Granted, their Venture was horrible compared to the Sienna or the Oddessy, but the Saturn Relay was pretty slick. If they build a Mini-Van with performance and All Wheel Drive, they could have a sleeper hit on their hands.

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All Glory To the Hypno-Toad!

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Shitty management plain and simple... an inbred belief that the American consumer would buy a car JUST because it's American... Although they had a few one hit wonders with the Solstice...



and the Corvette powered GTO...



this is also the car company that brought you the world ugliest, most useless car EVER!! The Pontiac Aztek...



and don't get me started on the G3...



Car companies will fail if they refuse to keep up with the times. GM had it's call to arms with the high gas prices of last year and they didn't budge. Too bad it's an American company...

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A working class hero is something to be...

They didn't budge because people were STILL buying Gas Guzzlers. F-Series Trucks, Silverados, and Rams were all in the top ten in 2007. Similar in 2008.

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All Glory To the Hypno-Toad!

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They generally made cars widely regarded as ugly clunkers (true or not), and they charged way too much for their decent cars.

I looked at their G6 a couple of years ago because I wanted to buy American and help stanch the domestic implosion. But the price I was quoted was laughable. And, it was, in my opinion, a mediocre car.

ThreadBare said:

They generally made cars widely regarded as ugly clunkers (true or not), and they charged way too much for their decent cars.

I looked at their G6 a couple of years ago because I wanted to buy American and help stanch the domestic implosion. But the price I was quoted was laughable. And, it was, in my opinion, a mediocre car.

You don't need directions and you don't need cash. From your Jimmy Choos to your Ultralash. ~ Prince
And when the groove is dead and gone, you know that Love survives so we can rock FOREVER. ~ RIP MJ

SCNDLS said:

ThreadBare said:

They generally made cars widely regarded as ugly clunkers (true or not), and they charged way too much for their decent cars.

I looked at their G6 a couple of years ago because I wanted to buy American and help stanch the domestic implosion. But the price I was quoted was laughable. And, it was, in my opinion, a mediocre car.

Why are there hoods soooo fucking ugly??? I find that design of the front ends of American cars are absolutely horrid, even on the sport cars the front is not agreesive enough. The only exception is the Corvette but other than that, I can't stand the design aesthetic of any American car especially GM cars.

ThreadBare said:

SCNDLS said:

Why are there hoods soooo fucking ugly??? I find that design of the front ends of American cars are absolutely horrid, even on the sport cars the front is not agreesive enough. The only exception is the Corvette but other than that, I can't stand the design aesthetic of any American car especially GM cars.

Add to that Pontiac's insistence on ugly spoilers and you can appreciate my utter aversion to their designs.

You don't need directions and you don't need cash. From your Jimmy Choos to your Ultralash. ~ Prince
And when the groove is dead and gone, you know that Love survives so we can rock FOREVER. ~ RIP MJ

SCNDLS said:

ThreadBare said:

Add to that Pontiac's insistence on ugly spoilers and you can appreciate my utter aversion to their designs.

That's one thing about German cars, the front and back end are always on point IMO. You know when you have a Bimmer, Benz or Porsche bearing down on your ass. I think the engineering and quality is present in most American cars but they refuse to evolve the design. People would buy American on looks alone if the design was sexier and more appealing to the eye. It's really not rocket science.

ThreadBare said:

SCNDLS said:

That's one thing about German cars, the front and back end are always on point IMO. You know when you have a Bimmer, Benz or Porsche bearing down on your ass. I think the engineering and quality is present in most American cars but they refuse to evolve the design. People would buy American on looks alone if the design was sexier and more appealing to the eye. It's really not rocket science.

Exactly. I couldn't tell you the number of times I've seen a gorgeous BMW swerve past me... Just wait 'til my ship comes in, chile...

You don't need directions and you don't need cash. From your Jimmy Choos to your Ultralash. ~ Prince
And when the groove is dead and gone, you know that Love survives so we can rock FOREVER. ~ RIP MJ

SCNDLS said:

ThreadBare said:

Exactly. I couldn't tell you the number of times I've seen a gorgeous BMW swerve past me... Just wait 'til my ship comes in, chile...

Well, honey I adores mine and even though it's 8 years old it still wants to run. The responsiveness is CARAZAY!!! It's like I'm trynta drive the speed limit and the car is like "C'mon let's GO!!!!" I've never had that inate sensation from anything American. So, uh, I'ma have to go with the Germans when it comes to my ride. Sorry Detroit but you blew your chances.

when they are trying to phase in hybrid/electric cars to the mainstream, it seems that this would be the class of car (pontiac/saturn) that they would phase out.

it seems more of a planned strategy to introduce a new line of cars forcing American consumers to think in a different direct, and the throwing away of the brand is all dramatics.

Graycap23 said:

SCNDLS said:

Well, honey I adores mine and even though it's 8 years old it still wants to run. The responsiveness is CARAZAY!!! It's like I'm trynta drive the speed limit and the car is like "C'mon let's GO!!!!" I've never had that inate sensation from anything American. So, uh, I'ma have to go with the Germans when it comes to my ride. Sorry Detroit but you blew your chances.

That M6 is looking mighty tasty.....

You don't need directions and you don't need cash. From your Jimmy Choos to your Ultralash. ~ Prince
And when the groove is dead and gone, you know that Love survives so we can rock FOREVER. ~ RIP MJ

My grandfather and uncle both had Pontiacs back in the day and they loved them. When I was looking for a car, I looked at some Pontiacs but the style didn't appeal to me. In 2005, I went to a GM-sponsored Auto Show In Motion that they had in California and I was able to test drive the G6 when it was brand new. They asked me what I had thought about the car and I told them that the car ran nice but the interior was bland. They needed to put more color into the interior and make it more sporty than it was, inside and out. 4 years later, this happens. It's a shame that this happened but at the same time, it's not shocking either. I just hope that there won't be anymore losses from the GM camp cause I like GM cars. My grandfather has a 2009 Buick Lucerne and it's the bomb.

Prince.org is a cemetery where folks mourn Prince instead of celebrate him and his music. Last time I checked, Prince isn't dead yet.

They need to bring back this car:



The 1974 SD 455 Trans Am. No, this is not an homage to "Smokey and the Bandit".

This is a REAL Trans Am; in fact, it was the LAST real Trans Am.

My brother had one in high school, and then he bought one a few years ago. What a GREAT car. Drives about as well as anything out there today.

And fast? My brother's cars were automatics, and you could smoke the tires all the way through the gears.

What a great car. I think I'm going to buy one.

"Guitar" on Leno is the greatest performance in the history of rock ' roll

Second Funkiest White Man in America

It sure is nice having adults running our government now

I hate this news.

Here's my car:

Great article by an even greater website!!

The Seven Cars that Killed Pontiac

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A working class hero is something to be...

GM for the last ten year has been living on the goodwill of a previous generation.
I cannot think any car or truck i would own from them, the Corvette is nice, but not my thing.

Ford has the f-150 pickup and thats about it, but at least ists a great enough seller that it can keep the entire company afloat on just that one product.

Chrysler, poor Chrysler has better products in my opinion than GM with the Jeep Wrangler being my favorite of theirs but with such limited demographics.
Styling wise i think they were passable compared to GM.
[Edited 4/28/09 17:53pm]

daPrettyman said:

I always trip off how different it is living in California and then going to the midwestern states. You see 90% American made cars in the midwest but out here in Cali it's all about Japanese cars for the middle class, and BMW's and Benzo's for those that can afford them.

bobsteezy said:

bobsteezy said: