URL: http://prince.org/msg/100/28322

Date printed: Wed 23rd Jul 2014 7:19pm PDT

independent and unofficial
Prince fan community site
Wed 23rd Jul 2014 7:19pm
Welcome! Sign up or enter username and password to remember me
Forums > General Discussion > What is the fascination with "thug" or "thug life?"
AuthorMessage
Thread started 11/19/02 6:06am

IceNine

What is the fascination with "thug" or "thug life?"

I don't get it at all...

"You're lonely and depressed you need a thug in your life." - 2pac.

What is the fascination with this "thug" shit? What is meant by "thug" today? Maybe I am not getting this, but I don't think that being a thug is a good thing... in fact, I think that it is fucking reprehensible.

Am I missing something here? Why is being a thug considered a good thing by some?

DEFINITIONS OF THUG FOLLOW:

thug

n : an aggressive young criminal [syn: hood, hoodlum, goon, punk, tough, toughie]

Source: WordNet ® 1.6, © 1997 Princeton University

---

thug

\Thug\, n. An assassin; a ruffian; a rough. ``Thugs and midnight rounders.'' --The Century.

Source: Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary, © 1996, 1998 MICRA, Inc.

---

thug ( P ) Pronunciation Key (thg)
n.

A cutthroat or ruffian; a hoodlum.

also Thug One of a band of professional assassins formerly active in northern India who worshiped Kali and offered their victims to her.

[Hindi hag, perhaps from Sanskrit sthaga, a cheat, from sthagati, sthagayati, he conceals. See (s)teg- in Indo-European Roots.]

thugger·y n.
thuggish adj.

Source: The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition
Copyright © 2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company.
Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.
SUPERJOINT RITUAL - http://www.superjointritual.com
A Lethal Dose of American Hatred
Reply #1 posted 11/19/02 6:08am

AzureStar

Some see it as having power, I think. Control over people, etc..
Reply #2 posted 11/19/02 6:10am

IceNine

AzureStar said:

Some see it as having power, I think. Control over people, etc..


Any dumb asshole with a gun can have power and control over other people while still being a sickening coward and a useless piece of shit.
SUPERJOINT RITUAL - http://www.superjointritual.com
A Lethal Dose of American Hatred
Reply #3 posted 11/19/02 6:13am

AzureStar

IceNine said:

AzureStar said:

Some see it as having power, I think. Control over people, etc..


Any dumb asshole with a gun can have power and control over other people while still being a sickening coward and a useless piece of shit.


Any dumb asshole can, that is true. But, I think the thugs today aren't just gun toting dumb asses. They live the "thug" life which they see as having power.
Reply #4 posted 11/19/02 6:15am

IceNine

AzureStar said:

IceNine said:

AzureStar said:

Some see it as having power, I think. Control over people, etc..


Any dumb asshole with a gun can have power and control over other people while still being a sickening coward and a useless piece of shit.


Any dumb asshole can, that is true. But, I think the thugs today aren't just gun toting dumb asses. They live the "thug" life which they see as having power.


I would like it if you could explain to me how one lives the "thug life" without doing crimes and how this "thug life" is a good thing.

Please...
SUPERJOINT RITUAL - http://www.superjointritual.com
A Lethal Dose of American Hatred
Reply #5 posted 11/19/02 6:22am

AzureStar

IceNine said:

AzureStar said:

IceNine said:

AzureStar said:

Some see it as having power, I think. Control over people, etc..


Any dumb asshole with a gun can have power and control over other people while still being a sickening coward and a useless piece of shit.


Any dumb asshole can, that is true. But, I think the thugs today aren't just gun toting dumb asses. They live the "thug" life which they see as having power.


I would like it if you could explain to me how one lives the "thug life" without doing crimes and how this "thug life" is a good thing.

Please...


I am not a thug, so I am not certain how one goes about living the thug life, however, I would venture a guess that a true thug would not be the one doing the crime. They would have their "men" doing the crimes for them, thus, being the one in power. They would flash whatever fancy shit they had, if any, again to show power. Once they are known as a thug, people are frightened of them and they can pretty much get away with anything. I would guess that these thugs thrive off of this so-called power they think they have, and the women and men who are associated with them thrive off of it as well.

I don't know if a thug can be a thug without doing crimes, what I meant earlier is that they weren't only gun toting assholes. I think it goes further than that...

I can't explain to you why I think it's a good life, because I don't think it is.



.
[This message was edited Tue Nov 19 6:23:57 PST 2002 by AzureStar]
Reply #6 posted 11/19/02 6:29am

IceNine

Well, since AzureStar and I cannot figure out what could possibly be good about being a thug, could anyone else step in and assist?
SUPERJOINT RITUAL - http://www.superjointritual.com
A Lethal Dose of American Hatred
Reply #7 posted 11/19/02 6:31am

LaVisHh

(raises deflector shields)

Speaking for myself, I feel they are fascinating.

Take the average nerd, or geek...and compare - who is more interesting?

Who will offer a more exciting life? It might be a dangerous life, but if given a dangerous situation or lifestyle, who would protect you?

(sits happily behind her shield)



:O
[This message was edited Tue Nov 19 6:32:23 PST 2002 by LaVisHh]
Reply #8 posted 11/19/02 6:32am

RodeoSchro

IceNine said:

Well, since AzureStar and I cannot figure out what could possibly be good about being a thug, could anyone else step in and assist?


No, I can't assist. I just want to say that I agree 100% with you, IceNine. I've wondered the same thing myself for years (especially now that I have children), and I applaud you for bringing this issue up.
Second Funkiest White Man in America

Rocket Frog
Reply #9 posted 11/19/02 6:37am

IceNine

LaVisHh said:

(raises deflector shields)

Speaking for myself, I feel they are fascinating.

Take the average nerd, or geek...and compare - who is more interesting?

Who will offer a more exciting life? It might be a dangerous life, but if given a dangerous situation or lifestyle, who would protect you?

(sits happily behind her shield)

:O



I am fascinated by serial killers and mass murderers as well, but I don't want to live the "serial killer life," nor do I have "Serial Killer Life" tattooed on my body like a badge of honor... you see what I am saying?

You see tons of people walking around wearing shirts, jackets, etc. that say "Thug Life" on them.

"You're lonely and depressed you need a serial killer in your life..."
SUPERJOINT RITUAL - http://www.superjointritual.com
A Lethal Dose of American Hatred
Reply #10 posted 11/19/02 6:42am

AzureStar

IceNine said:

"You're lonely and depressed you need a serial killer in your life..."



That would make for a good shirt, Tony! smile
Reply #11 posted 11/19/02 6:44am

LaVisHh

hehe

I was looking at the question you raised. biggrin

As for wanting to be a part of it - I think it's an acceptance thing. Or maybe it's the fault of those who have airplay?

Youth tend to be followers, and if the person they admire or look up to is presented in such a manner...you get the picture

Guess I am not fit to answer your main point, which is who'd wanna live it. Because I wouldn't.

sad
Reply #12 posted 11/19/02 6:49am

AzureStar

They view it as a sign of status... don't you think?
Reply #13 posted 11/19/02 6:50am

IceNine

AzureStar said:

They view it as a sign of status... don't you think?


Some ignorant fuckers also view going to prison as a sign of manhood... this is the type of ignorant shit that I am trying to understand.
SUPERJOINT RITUAL - http://www.superjointritual.com
A Lethal Dose of American Hatred
Reply #14 posted 11/19/02 6:52am

AzureStar

IceNine said:

AzureStar said:

They view it as a sign of status... don't you think?


Some ignorant fuckers also view going to prison as a sign of manhood... this is the type of ignorant shit that I am trying to understand.


I don't think you will ever understand it, Tony. I know I won't.
Reply #15 posted 11/19/02 7:01am

AprilMichelle

People are fascinated by the so called "thug life" because it provides material goods and a fair amount of power,along with the allure of the "edgy" or dangerous...a thug is supposedly above the law...he/she takes whatever or whoever they want with impulsiveness and force,regardless of consequences or opposition from legal forces. Being a "thug" gives people who otherwise feel powerless and insecure a way to gain respect of a sort, a sense of importance. It is similar in a fashion to those who turn to street gangs in order to create a "family" they otherwise didn't have.
There is nothing positive about this lifestyle and it makes me sick how it is being glorified across this country. The ways of a thug only lead to his or her own self destruction along with severe damage to their families and community.The thug is a negative stereotype that many people (entertainers and others) have made to look glamourous. By placing the focus of "thug life" on money,fast cars and faster women as a marketing strategy, it makes it easier for potential thugs to overlook the very real (and negative) consequences. Yes there is a chance of fame and wealth, but the thug lifestyle is much more likely to leave a person dead or incarcerated...unfortunately the alaming statistics in gang and drug deal related deaths(particularly among youth) doesn't seem to stop anyone from buying into the images that promote this lifestyle. Sad isn't it?
Reply #16 posted 11/19/02 7:01am

4LOVE

The person best to ask is the white kid who doesn't have any reason to be a thug.Most people become thugs out of a friendship or bond with their neighborhood.They usually are poor and do crime because they cannot get a job and see it as the only way to get decent money.Prince said it best "Who's to blame when he's got no place to go and all he's got is the sense to know that a life of crime will help him BEAT YOU IN THE RACE".This is how it was in th past.Now the media has glamorized it and made it COOL.Now everybody wants to be a thug.Kids have always had a fascination with gangsters and thugs because of how they are portrayed.Also you can't judge a person by their clothes now.The people in the media and government are the biggest thugs to me.I have alot of friends who look "thuggish" and do more charity work than most will do in a lifetime.They just like the style.And NO! i am not a thug,i have never been to jail for anything before anyone asks.I have had a steady job since i was 18.And Ice i remember you playing the part of a gangster on here smile
Reply #17 posted 11/19/02 7:03am

IceNine

My point in all of this is that I think that it is very sad when people's role models are criminals or sports heroes rather than intelligent, upstanding people who make a positive impact on the world.

Maybe I am just a total square... this is possible... but I don't think that crime is a good thing and I think that romanticizing the criminal lifestyle does nothing but cause harm to society in that it makes crime look enticing and romantic.
SUPERJOINT RITUAL - http://www.superjointritual.com
A Lethal Dose of American Hatred
Reply #18 posted 11/19/02 7:06am

teller

Probably for the same reason that Tony Soprano gets so many women. The illusion of power.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Reply #19 posted 11/19/02 7:07am

IceNine

4LOVE said:

The person best to ask is the white kid who doesn't have any reason to be a thug.Most people become thugs out of a friendship or bond with their neighborhood.They usually are poor and do crime because they cannot get a job and see it as the only way to get decent money.Prince said it best "Who's to blame when he's got no place to go and all he's got is the sense to know that a life of crime will help him BEAT YOU IN THE RACE".This is how it was in th past.Now the media has glamorized it and made it COOL.Now everybody wants to be a thug.Kids have always had a fascination with gangsters and thugs because of how they are portrayed.Also you can't judge a person by their clothes now.The people in the media and government are the biggest thugs to me.I have alot of friends who look "thuggish" and do more charity work than most will do in a lifetime.They just like the style.And NO! i am not a thug,i have never been to jail for anything before anyone asks.I have had a steady job since i was 18.And Ice i remember you playing the part of a gangster on here smile


Good response... I think that you are right... the media is partially responsible for the problem. The media typically will try to romanticize things to sell advertising and boost ratings... it is pathetic.

I "played" ganster on here, this is true. PLAYED biggrin I didn't live it!

But you do have a point about the government being thugs as well... the CIA go around and kill people, sell drugs, etc., they are the kings of the thugs... excellent.
SUPERJOINT RITUAL - http://www.superjointritual.com
A Lethal Dose of American Hatred
Reply #20 posted 11/19/02 7:08am

AprilMichelle

In summary of my whole point it takes a lots less effort to pack a piece and take what you want then to go to school,get a good job and EARN it. The weak-minded and lazy see their utter lack of impulse control as a badge of honor and its becoming an increasingly common problem...
Reply #21 posted 11/19/02 7:10am

4LOVE

IceNine said:

4LOVE said:

The person best to ask is the white kid who doesn't have any reason to be a thug.Most people become thugs out of a friendship or bond with their neighborhood.They usually are poor and do crime because they cannot get a job and see it as the only way to get decent money.Prince said it best "Who's to blame when he's got no place to go and all he's got is the sense to know that a life of crime will help him BEAT YOU IN THE RACE".This is how it was in th past.Now the media has glamorized it and made it COOL.Now everybody wants to be a thug.Kids have always had a fascination with gangsters and thugs because of how they are portrayed.Also you can't judge a person by their clothes now.The people in the media and government are the biggest thugs to me.I have alot of friends who look "thuggish" and do more charity work than most will do in a lifetime.They just like the style.And NO! i am not a thug,i have never been to jail for anything before anyone asks.I have had a steady job since i was 18.And Ice i remember you playing the part of a gangster on here smile


Good response... I think that you are right... the media is partially responsible for the problem. The media typically will try to romanticize things to sell advertising and boost ratings... it is pathetic.

I "played" ganster on here, this is true. PLAYED biggrin I didn't live it!

But you do have a point about the government being thugs as well... the CIA go around and kill people, sell drugs, etc., they are the kings of the thugs... excellent.


Alot of rappers do the same thing,then get "caught up" in the real thug world.Listen to early tupac and latter day tupac.Two totally different people.
Reply #22 posted 11/19/02 7:10am

NuPwrSoul

IceNine said:

I don't get it at all...

"You're lonely and depressed you need a thug in your life." - 2pac.

What is the fascination with this "thug" shit? What is meant by "thug" today? Maybe I am not getting this, but I don't think that being a thug is a good thing... in fact, I think that it is fucking reprehensible.

Am I missing something here? Why is being a thug considered a good thing by some?



Although identified with the "Thugh Life" Tupac is nowhere near the root of American culture's fascination with criminals. The outlaw has a mythology and literature that goes as far back as the frontiersmen. The iconization of the "cowboy" paralleled that of the "badman."

The Western outlaw combined with the mafia don and you have what most are celebratin as the "thug life." These are folks RAISED on "Scarface" and "The Godfather," and that's their idea of "thug." Is it any surprise that "The Sopranos" is one of the most highly rated programs in television at the moment?

The tone of this discussion seems to want to put hip hop at the center of the discussion on thug life. Before you go scapegoating hip hop culture, take a look at the larger culture.
"That...magic, the start of something revolutionary-the Minneapolis Sound, we should cherish it and not punish prince for not being able to replicate it."-Dreamshaman32
Reply #23 posted 11/19/02 7:15am

IceNine

NuPwrSoul said:

IceNine said:

I don't get it at all...

"You're lonely and depressed you need a thug in your life." - 2pac.

What is the fascination with this "thug" shit? What is meant by "thug" today? Maybe I am not getting this, but I don't think that being a thug is a good thing... in fact, I think that it is fucking reprehensible.

Am I missing something here? Why is being a thug considered a good thing by some?



Although identified with the "Thugh Life" Tupac is nowhere near the root of American culture's fascination with criminals. The outlaw has a mythology and literature that goes as far back as the frontiersmen. The iconization of the "cowboy" paralleled that of the "badman."

The Western outlaw combined with the mafia don and you have what most are celebratin as the "thug life." These are folks RAISED on "Scarface" and "The Godfather," and that's their idea of "thug." Is it any surprise that "The Sopranos" is one of the most highly rated programs in television at the moment?

The tone of this discussion seems to want to put hip hop at the center of the discussion on thug life. Before you go scapegoating hip hop culture, take a look at the larger culture.


I am specifically talking about ANYONE who proudly proclaims "thug life" and tries to live that lifestyle.

The outlaw has always fascinated society but it is no longer in the realm of fantasy now...

"The shit that I be saying ain't nothin' worse than a western movie..." - Scarface

I know that some rappers, such as Scarface, claim that they are merely providing entertainment... the problem is that many of those who listen to it do not take it as such.

At least in rock, disco, techno, country and western music, etc., the message is not about killing, pimping and doing "gangsta shit." With this in mind, a large part of the problem is indeed the hip-hop culture, but I cannot deny the influence of other forms of media as well.
SUPERJOINT RITUAL - http://www.superjointritual.com
A Lethal Dose of American Hatred
Reply #24 posted 11/19/02 7:17am

teller

If drugs were legalized, this cultural distortion would vanish.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Reply #25 posted 11/19/02 7:18am

IceNine

teller said:

If drugs were legalized, this cultural distortion would vanish.


Yes!

This is very much like Al Capone and his buddies during prohibition... legalization takes the market away from the criminals.
SUPERJOINT RITUAL - http://www.superjointritual.com
A Lethal Dose of American Hatred
Reply #26 posted 11/19/02 7:18am

AzureStar

teller said:

If drugs were legalized, this cultural distortion would vanish.


mmhmmm... I agree with you.
Reply #27 posted 11/19/02 7:53am

joelmarable

Thug-- A clssless idiot, uncultivated person with nothing going 4 them but a street like reputation 4 being a trouble maker. One who dresses with his pants falling off of him is the description of a thug. As if the belt has not been invented. One who classifies a drum machine as his band. One who takes a trip 2 the dentist and comes back with gold teeth and proud of it. Thats a thug. Why the excitment over one? only a thug could b attracted 2 one.
stickman
Reply #28 posted 11/19/02 8:16am

applekisses

Wow...
Very good points on this thread. I agree with those who say that the whole 'rough guy' status (notice I'm not saying 'image' yet) started in the lower-income and poor areas of the country. In the United States, those areas have historically been populated by immigrants and other ethnic minorities.
When some people are pressured to make the choice between committing a crime and feeding/housing their families, in my opinion, the weaker of character choose crime.
Both my father's and mother's families came to this country during the Great Depression (I was a 'change of life' baby so my parents are most likely older than most of yours) both of my grandfathers died when my parents were young and both of my grandmothers spoke very broken English. My Italian grandmother had 10 kids to raise and my Hungarian grandmother had 4 kids to raise. NONE of my uncles or aunts and neither of my parents resorted to crime to make up for what they were missing. In fact, the worst thing my father and his brothers did was take potatoes from the neighbors garden and wait for lumps of coal to fall off of the passing train cars so that they could heat their house.
In my opinion, the whole 'Thug' thing is a cop out. There ARE sooo many opportunites for EVERY kind of person to get help -- scholarships, grants, finanical aid, food stamps, FIA, WIC, etc, etc, etc -- that I cannot buy the fact that people are FORCED to go out killing and robbing and raping for ANY reason.
I hate to think that this country is going to hell in a handbasket, but when this kind of hell is commercialized...it makes me wonder and fear for our kids.
I think what needs to be examined here is the reasons that people are CHOOSING to do this rather than looking at their alternatives.
Is it because of a lack of good parenting? If so, should the government/social services make more of an effort to aid people who are having parenting problems?
Is it because of the evils of Capitalism? In this country today, the self-esteem of many depends upon what they are wearing or their 'look' -- if you take that to the extreme and say that ONLY this expensive pair of athletic shoes or ONLY this expensive leather jacket will make me feel good about myself...could it be that our economic system is telling us that we need to BUY our self-esteem rather than earn and grow it?
I could go on and on...
Any more ideas?
[This message was edited Tue Nov 19 8:21:19 PST 2002 by applekisses]
Reply #29 posted 11/19/02 8:53am

POOK


POOK NOT UNDERSTAND

POOK WANT TO HUG LIFE!

P o o |/,
P o o |\
Reply #30 posted 11/19/02 8:55am

Sataninas

POOK said:


POOK NOT UNDERSTAND

POOK WANT TO HUG LIFE!


hug to POOK from Sataninas evillol heart ' s life too
[This message was edited Tue Nov 19 8:57:14 PST 2002 by Sataninas]
Reply #31 posted 11/19/02 8:59am

Sataninas

IceNine said:

I don't get it at all...

"You're lonely and depressed you need a thug in your life." - 2pac.

What is the fascination with this "thug" shit? What is meant by "thug" today? Maybe I am not getting this, but I don't think that being a thug is a good thing... in fact, I think that it is fucking reprehensible.

Am I missing something here? Why is being a thug considered a good thing by some?

DEFINITIONS OF THUG FOLLOW:

thug

n : an aggressive young criminal [syn: hood, hoodlum, goon, punk, tough, toughie]

Source: WordNet ® 1.6, © 1997 Princeton University

---

thug

\Thug\, n. An assassin; a ruffian; a rough. ``Thugs and midnight rounders.'' --The Century.

Source: Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary, © 1996, 1998 MICRA, Inc.

---

thug ( P ) Pronunciation Key (thg)
n.

A cutthroat or ruffian; a hoodlum.

also Thug One of a band of professional assassins formerly active in northern India who worshiped Kali and offered their victims to her.

[Hindi hag, perhaps from Sanskrit sthaga, a cheat, from sthagati, sthagayati, he conceals. See (s)teg- in Indo-European Roots.]

thugger·y n.
thuggish adj.

Source: The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition
Copyright © 2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company.
Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.


This is too complicated for me to read/understand right know. confuse Sorry. IceNine you're a professor?
Reply #32 posted 11/19/02 9:04am

applekisses

POOK said:


POOK NOT UNDERSTAND

POOK WANT TO HUG LIFE!


Awww...POOK...hug I missed you! smile
Reply #33 posted 11/19/02 9:15am

ScarLett

its Game...
~Live Free ... Be Wyld~AlwaysOnlyMakeBelieve - LiveUrLyfe... laissez le bon temps rouler...vivre sans être sauvage...हमेशा ही बना विश्वास ~Change and do so CONSTANTLY...
Reply #34 posted 11/19/02 9:44am

rdhull

applekisses said:

Wow...
Very good points on this thread. I agree with those who say that the whole 'rough guy' status (notice I'm not saying 'image' yet) started in the lower-income and poor areas of the country. In the United States, those areas have historically been populated by immigrants and other ethnic minorities.
When some people are pressured to make the choice between committing a crime and feeding/housing their families, in my opinion, the weaker of character choose crime.
Both my father's and mother's families came to this country during the Great Depression (I was a 'change of life' baby so my parents are most likely older than most of yours) both of my grandfathers died when my parents were young and both of my grandmothers spoke very broken English. My Italian grandmother had 10 kids to raise and my Hungarian grandmother had 4 kids to raise. NONE of my uncles or aunts and neither of my parents resorted to crime to make up for what they were missing. In fact, the worst thing my father and his brothers did was take potatoes from the neighbors garden and wait for lumps of coal to fall off of the passing train cars so that they could heat their house.
In my opinion, the whole 'Thug' thing is a cop out. There ARE sooo many opportunites for EVERY kind of person to get help -- scholarships, grants, finanical aid, food stamps, FIA, WIC, etc, etc, etc -- that I cannot buy the fact that people are FORCED to go out killing and robbing and raping for ANY reason.
I hate to think that this country is going to hell in a handbasket, but when this kind of hell is commercialized...it makes me wonder and fear for our kids.
I think what needs to be examined here is the reasons that people are CHOOSING to do this rather than looking at their alternatives.
Is it because of a lack of good parenting? If so, should the government/social services make more of an effort to aid people who are having parenting problems?
Is it because of the evils of Capitalism? In this country today, the self-esteem of many depends upon what they are wearing or their 'look' -- if you take that to the extreme and say that ONLY this expensive pair of athletic shoes or ONLY this expensive leather jacket will make me feel good about myself...could it be that our economic system is telling us that we need to BUY our self-esteem rather than earn and grow it?
I could go on and on...
Any more ideas?
[This message was edited Tue Nov 19 8:21:19 PST 2002 by applekisses]


Even though I dont fully agree on certain aspects,can you point me to the building where they are selling ways to break it down like that?
[This message was edited Tue Nov 19 10:16:11 PST 2002 by rdhull]
Roger Ebert:rest in peace
Reply #35 posted 11/19/02 10:23am

00769BAD

NuPwrSoul said:

IceNine said:

I don't get it at all...

"You're lonely and depressed you need a thug in your life." - 2pac.

What is the fascination with this "thug" shit? What is meant by "thug" today? Maybe I am not getting this, but I don't think that being a thug is a good thing... in fact, I think that it is fucking reprehensible.

Am I missing something here? Why is being a thug considered a good thing by some?



Although identified with the "Thugh Life" Tupac is nowhere near the root of American culture's fascination with criminals. The outlaw has a mythology and literature that goes as far back as the frontiersmen. The iconization of the "cowboy" paralleled that of the "badman."

The Western outlaw combined with the mafia don and you have what most are celebratin as the "thug life." These are folks RAISED on "Scarface" and "The Godfather," and that's their idea of "thug." Is it any surprise that "The Sopranos" is one of the most highly rated programs in television at the moment?

The tone of this discussion seems to want to put hip hop at the center of the discussion on thug life. Before you go scapegoating hip hop culture, take a look at the larger culture.

NuPwrSoul is quite eloquint in the was he exsplains THANGS
but now, let's put it in BAD TERMS...
Ice, i love you like a play cousin, however i'm begining to see a certain side to you that i thought i covered.
you being the brite, intelegent, educated type of person you are fails to see the clear picture on many subjects.
THUG LIFE aint nothin new, JAMES CAGNEY, HUMPHRY BOGART
THE BOWERY BOYS, and many others were the THUGS that MY GENERATION looked to, to seek out ways to (not suvive)
LIVE as those who thumbed their noses at us for our
being 'financially challenged'
we all had the opportunity to get an education and excell
like anyone else... TRUE. but the final outcome to that would be being an educated factory worker.
when you pullin down 'G's a week can't nobody tell you
it's better to stay in school.
as for RIDE or DIE, this is a term that was bought about
during the PANTHER MOVEMENT which is probibly another of the things that you would find fault with.
let me clairify, the PANTHER MOVEMENT OF THE 60s.
anyway THUG LIFE, just like RAP in general is becomming a widely excepted way of life because it was jammed down
our throats for DECADES. and in a goverment where DRUGS
are a major part of of the financial structure, who did you think would be put on the front lines...
SHIT JUST BACK FIRED!!!
I AM King BAD a.k.a. BAD,
YOU EITHER WANNA BE ME, OR BE JUST LIKE ME

evilking
Reply #36 posted 11/19/02 10:37am

IceNine

00769BAD said:

NuPwrSoul said:

IceNine said:

I don't get it at all...

"You're lonely and depressed you need a thug in your life." - 2pac.

What is the fascination with this "thug" shit? What is meant by "thug" today? Maybe I am not getting this, but I don't think that being a thug is a good thing... in fact, I think that it is fucking reprehensible.

Am I missing something here? Why is being a thug considered a good thing by some?



Although identified with the "Thugh Life" Tupac is nowhere near the root of American culture's fascination with criminals. The outlaw has a mythology and literature that goes as far back as the frontiersmen. The iconization of the "cowboy" paralleled that of the "badman."

The Western outlaw combined with the mafia don and you have what most are celebratin as the "thug life." These are folks RAISED on "Scarface" and "The Godfather," and that's their idea of "thug." Is it any surprise that "The Sopranos" is one of the most highly rated programs in television at the moment?

The tone of this discussion seems to want to put hip hop at the center of the discussion on thug life. Before you go scapegoating hip hop culture, take a look at the larger culture.

NuPwrSoul is quite eloquint in the was he exsplains THANGS
but now, let's put it in BAD TERMS...
Ice, i love you like a play cousin, however i'm begining to see a certain side to you that i thought i covered.
you being the brite, intelegent, educated type of person you are fails to see the clear picture on many subjects.
THUG LIFE aint nothin new, JAMES CAGNEY, HUMPHRY BOGART
THE BOWERY BOYS, and many others were the THUGS that MY GENERATION looked to, to seek out ways to (not suvive)
LIVE as those who thumbed their noses at us for our
being 'financially challenged'
we all had the opportunity to get an education and excell
like anyone else... TRUE. but the final outcome to that would be being an educated factory worker.
when you pullin down 'G's a week can't nobody tell you
it's better to stay in school.
as for RIDE or DIE, this is a term that was bought about
during the PANTHER MOVEMENT which is probibly another of the things that you would find fault with.
let me clairify, the PANTHER MOVEMENT OF THE 60s.
anyway THUG LIFE, just like RAP in general is becomming a widely excepted way of life because it was jammed down
our throats for DECADES. and in a goverment where DRUGS
are a major part of of the financial structure, who did you think would be put on the front lines...
SHIT JUST BACK FIRED!!!



Right, right and right... I agree with you on many points... my question is: "why don't people realize that living the 'thug life' is not anything desirable?"

My concern is over the mass acceptance of this as a way of life. It is worse now than it was with the "gangster era" with Capone and the boys because it is more widespread. I certainly understand that the "gangster" allure is nothing new at all. What I am saying is that it is getting worse and it is being glorified and made "mainstream" instead of being an undercurrent of society.

You see my point?

I am not saying anything against rap or any one group of people... there are MANY white kids who think that the "thug" thing is cool as well, so I am not saying anything against blacks... I am commenting on society as a whole.

It is also telling that the most popular rapper of all-time is a white guy... maybe the media and government plays into this more than I originally thought.
...
[This message was edited Tue Nov 19 10:37:47 PST 2002 by IceNine]
SUPERJOINT RITUAL - http://www.superjointritual.com
A Lethal Dose of American Hatred
Reply #37 posted 11/19/02 10:43am

SensualMelody

00769BAD said:

NuPwrSoul said:

IceNine said:

I don't get it at all...

"You're lonely and depressed you need a thug in your life." - 2pac.

What is the fascination with this "thug" shit? What is meant by "thug" today? Maybe I am not getting this, but I don't think that being a thug is a good thing... in fact, I think that it is fucking reprehensible.

Am I missing something here? Why is being a thug considered a good thing by some?



Although identified with the "Thugh Life" Tupac is nowhere near the root of American culture's fascination with criminals. The outlaw has a mythology and literature that goes as far back as the frontiersmen. The iconization of the "cowboy" paralleled that of the "badman."

The Western outlaw combined with the mafia don and you have what most are celebratin as the "thug life." These are folks RAISED on "Scarface" and "The Godfather," and that's their idea of "thug." Is it any surprise that "The Sopranos" is one of the most highly rated programs in television at the moment?

The tone of this discussion seems to want to put hip hop at the center of the discussion on thug life. Before you go scapegoating hip hop culture, take a look at the larger culture.

NuPwrSoul is quite eloquint in the was he exsplains THANGS
but now, let's put it in BAD TERMS...
Ice, i love you like a play cousin, however i'm begining to see a certain side to you that i thought i covered.
you being the brite, intelegent, educated type of person you are fails to see the clear picture on many subjects.
THUG LIFE aint nothin new, JAMES CAGNEY, HUMPHRY BOGART
THE BOWERY BOYS, and many others were the THUGS that MY GENERATION looked to, to seek out ways to (not suvive)
LIVE as those who thumbed their noses at us for our
being 'financially challenged'
we all had the opportunity to get an education and excell
like anyone else... TRUE. but the final outcome to that would be being an educated factory worker.
when you pullin down 'G's a week can't nobody tell you
it's better to stay in school.
as for RIDE or DIE, this is a term that was bought about
during the PANTHER MOVEMENT which is probibly another of the things that you would find fault with.
let me clairify, the PANTHER MOVEMENT OF THE 60s.
anyway THUG LIFE, just like RAP in general is becomming a widely excepted way of life because it was jammed down
our throats for DECADES. and in a goverment where DRUGS
are a major part of of the financial structure, who did you think would be put on the front lines...
SHIT JUST BACK FIRED!!!


Your intelligence is showing again, BAD. You are right, of
course. It is unfortunate that things are as they are...
but not totally unexpected. Materialism has become a god to
the world and money and glitter tend to ensnare the young.

But in answer to Ice's question, the facination comes as a
result of the glamorization of said "thug life" by the
corporate leaders of the entertainment world. The same
instinct that makes people thrill-seekers would promote
facination with this life-style. The entertainment giants
make huge profits selling this "product", while many who
buy it are led to an early grave.sad
So...how's everybody doing? smile
Reply #38 posted 11/19/02 10:48am

Essence

Damn IceNine, recent rants of yours range from tirades against "Hip-hop", "Baggy clothing", "Ebonics" etc. Is there an agenda tied in with your concerns? smile
Reply #39 posted 11/19/02 10:52am

IceNine

Essence said:

Damn IceNine, recent rants of yours range from tirades against "Hip-hop", "Baggy clothing", "Ebonics" etc. Is there an agenda tied in with your concerns? smile


Yep... my agenda is this:

I want to know what is happening with society. Why are we seemingly purposely embracing criminality, illiteracy and things of that nature. This goes across race, so I don't want anyone accusing me of being racist because I ask these questions.

I see these things and I wonder why they exist...
SUPERJOINT RITUAL - http://www.superjointritual.com
A Lethal Dose of American Hatred
Reply #40 posted 11/19/02 10:58am

Essence

IceNine said:

Essence said:

Damn IceNine, recent rants of yours range from tirades against "Hip-hop", "Baggy clothing", "Ebonics" etc. Is there an agenda tied in with your concerns? smile


Yep... my agenda is this:

I want to know what is happening with society. Why are we seemingly purposely embracing criminality, illiteracy and things of that nature. This goes across race, so I don't want anyone accusing me of being racist because I ask these questions.

I see these things and I wonder why they exist...


I wouldn't say "racist", it's just your current concerns and queries seem firmly fixed on certain areas of scoiety right now. Is it really all that puzzling to you?
Reply #41 posted 11/19/02 11:00am

IceNine

To clarify some of my positions in very, very short statements:

Rap/Hip-Hop music - from what I can see, it is primarily presenting people with extremely materialistic, sexist and violent images. The imagery is "thug life" and can be seen as a bad influence on the youth while it can also be defended on the grounds of it being simple entertainment, much like movies.

Very baggy pants that have to be held up - this is just silly shit.

"Thug Life" - I believe that glorifying thugs is bad for society and I, for one, would prefer if people glorified something other than crime... take education and literacy, for example. I suppose one could blame the media...

I know that there are millions of extremely intelligent, well-educated black people in America, but the media tends to only promote the criminal image instead of the positive image that could be shown. I am certain that positive messages do not sell as well as negative images, so the media can be seen as a culprit.

Ebonics - I still don't buy into it being a language, but I am open to learning.
SUPERJOINT RITUAL - http://www.superjointritual.com
A Lethal Dose of American Hatred
Reply #42 posted 11/19/02 11:02am

IceNine

Essence said:

IceNine said:

Essence said:

Damn IceNine, recent rants of yours range from tirades against "Hip-hop", "Baggy clothing", "Ebonics" etc. Is there an agenda tied in with your concerns? smile


Yep... my agenda is this:

I want to know what is happening with society. Why are we seemingly purposely embracing criminality, illiteracy and things of that nature. This goes across race, so I don't want anyone accusing me of being racist because I ask these questions.

I see these things and I wonder why they exist...


I wouldn't say "racist", it's just your current concerns and queries seem firmly fixed on certain areas of scoiety right now. Is it really all that puzzling to you?


Yes, it is VERY puzzling to me... I am also puzzled by the fucking Jerry Springer/WWF white culture... I don't get that shit at all! I will never understand it, so I guess I need to stop worrying about it...
SUPERJOINT RITUAL - http://www.superjointritual.com
A Lethal Dose of American Hatred
Reply #43 posted 11/19/02 11:18am

IceNine

I thought of another way to present my case:

The word "thug" is used to describe a criminal... usually a violent criminal. I believe that the mass-acceptance of the term "thug" and the use of "thug life" as a description of a desirable life is bad for society and I don't condone it. Should children be taught that it is not only okay to be a "thug," but that it is also a desirable way to live your life?

I believe that we should present a more positive message. Maybe I am a total square, as I said before, but I believe that children are very important and the things that they are being taught by society are damaging.

This is only my opinion, but I believe that we should be teaching the children exactly how WRONG it is to be a thug or to live the "thug life" instead of glorifying it. Wouldn't it be better to have former "thugs" tell children exactly how wrong that lifestyle is?

You can tell me if I am terribly wrong here if you wish.
SUPERJOINT RITUAL - http://www.superjointritual.com
A Lethal Dose of American Hatred
Reply #44 posted 11/19/02 11:27am

Essence

IceNine said:

I thought of another way to present my case:

The word "thug" is used to describe a criminal... usually a violent criminal. I believe that the mass-acceptance of the term "thug" and the use of "thug life" as a description of a desirable life is bad for society and I don't condone it. Should children be taught that it is not only okay to be a "thug," but that it is also a desirable way to live your life?

I believe that we should present a more positive message. Maybe I am a total square, as I said before, but I believe that children are very important and the things that they are being taught by society are damaging.

This is only my opinion, but I believe that we should be teaching the children exactly how WRONG it is to be a thug or to live the "thug life" instead of glorifying it. Wouldn't it be better to have former "thugs" tell children exactly how wrong that lifestyle is?

You can tell me if I am terribly wrong here if you wish.


In a perfect world the term "Thug" wouldn't exist. Poverty and lack of opportunity breeds crime and if life is a continuous struggle a quick term glamourous fix could seem an attractive option.

It's all about walking in a man's shoes before judging too harshly. A little tolerance and understanding in why society's dynamics are this way...
Reply #45 posted 11/19/02 11:29am

joelmarable

Record companies should bring it 2 a halt, because art is not imatating life anymore,life is imatating art in a very sick way. Making blacks look as if we all are thugs and cant play instruments, and thats not the deal.
stickman
Reply #46 posted 11/19/02 11:30am

00769BAD

IceNine said:

Essence said:

IceNine said:

Essence said:

Damn IceNine, recent rants of yours range from tirades against "Hip-hop", "Baggy clothing", "Ebonics" etc. Is there an agenda tied in with your concerns? smile


Yep... my agenda is this:

I want to know what is happening with society. Why are we seemingly purposely embracing criminality, illiteracy and things of that nature. This goes across race, so I don't want anyone accusing me of being racist because I ask these questions.

I see these things and I wonder why they exist...


I wouldn't say "racist", it's just your current concerns and queries seem firmly fixed on certain areas of scoiety right now. Is it really all that puzzling to you?


Yes, it is VERY puzzling to me... I am also puzzled by the fucking Jerry Springer/WWF white culture... I don't get that shit at all! I will never understand it, so I guess I need to stop worrying about it...

my question to you then would be WHUT IS GOOD FOR SOCIETY
and how can it be implamented in a fassion that will
apeal to the masses???
THIS IS A RETOICAL QUESTION,
because if it was that easy, it would have been done already.
LET ME CLARIFY THAT!!!
MALCOM said we live in a society that is capable of manufactering cars that would last for twenty years
afordable to anyone (of course i'm parafrazing)
but it is true.
this goverment aint lookin to HEAL IT'S WOUNDED
there are more PRISONS bein built than SCHOOLS... WHY???
why is it so hard to see that the goverment thrives
on all you see as wrong... why is that???
when it comes to the drug trade, who do you think allowed
it in the first place. WARS NEED MONEY... SECRET WARS NEED
DRUG MONEY...
COVERT OPs and all that shit.
BAGGY CLOTHES HIDE DRUGS AND GUNS. i don't sag, and think it's rediculous, but i fully understand the need to hide some shit.
theses were not problems while they were contained in the BLACK COMMUNITY, again i tell you SHIT JUST BACKFIRED.
this also goes back to the usage of the NIGGA as a term of affection.
when it was a hurtful word (the word ni**er) there was never the outrage at it's being used, but we changed it to something that We could identify with and it BECAME a
BAD THANG...
listen, all the shit that was done in the dark, is now commin to lite.
the past has caught up, and it's claiming the innocent
victims of the 'BURBS... whowouldathunkit...
I AM King BAD a.k.a. BAD,
YOU EITHER WANNA BE ME, OR BE JUST LIKE ME

evilking
Reply #47 posted 11/19/02 11:32am

IceNine

Essence said:

IceNine said:

I thought of another way to present my case:

The word "thug" is used to describe a criminal... usually a violent criminal. I believe that the mass-acceptance of the term "thug" and the use of "thug life" as a description of a desirable life is bad for society and I don't condone it. Should children be taught that it is not only okay to be a "thug," but that it is also a desirable way to live your life?

I believe that we should present a more positive message. Maybe I am a total square, as I said before, but I believe that children are very important and the things that they are being taught by society are damaging.

This is only my opinion, but I believe that we should be teaching the children exactly how WRONG it is to be a thug or to live the "thug life" instead of glorifying it. Wouldn't it be better to have former "thugs" tell children exactly how wrong that lifestyle is?

You can tell me if I am terribly wrong here if you wish.


In a perfect world the term "Thug" wouldn't exist. Poverty and lack of opportunity breeds crime and if life is a continuous struggle a quick term glamourous fix could seem an attractive option.

It's all about walking in a man's shoes before judging too harshly. A little tolerance and understanding in why society's dynamics are this way...


I can see where you are coming from, but I still cannot understand why there are lines of clothing that have "thug life" written on them.

What I am trying to understand is this:

Does the term "thug life" refer to living a life of crime, or does it have some second meaning that I am not aware of?
SUPERJOINT RITUAL - http://www.superjointritual.com
A Lethal Dose of American Hatred
Reply #48 posted 11/19/02 11:33am

yamomma

Moderator
It's about the blig bling yo?

© 2013 Yamomma®
All Rights Reserved.
Reply #49 posted 11/19/02 11:35am

yamomma

Moderator
and the...
(I'm sorry someone else can come up with a caption for this guy)



Crazy fools.
© 2013 Yamomma®
All Rights Reserved.
Reply #50 posted 11/19/02 11:36am

IceNine

00769BAD said:

IceNine said:

Essence said:

IceNine said:

Essence said:

Damn IceNine, recent rants of yours range from tirades against "Hip-hop", "Baggy clothing", "Ebonics" etc. Is there an agenda tied in with your concerns? smile


Yep... my agenda is this:

I want to know what is happening with society. Why are we seemingly purposely embracing criminality, illiteracy and things of that nature. This goes across race, so I don't want anyone accusing me of being racist because I ask these questions.

I see these things and I wonder why they exist...


I wouldn't say "racist", it's just your current concerns and queries seem firmly fixed on certain areas of scoiety right now. Is it really all that puzzling to you?


Yes, it is VERY puzzling to me... I am also puzzled by the fucking Jerry Springer/WWF white culture... I don't get that shit at all! I will never understand it, so I guess I need to stop worrying about it...

my question to you then would be WHUT IS GOOD FOR SOCIETY
and how can it be implamented in a fassion that will
apeal to the masses???
THIS IS A RETOICAL QUESTION,
because if it was that easy, it would have been done already.
LET ME CLARIFY THAT!!!
MALCOM said we live in a society that is capable of manufactering cars that would last for twenty years
afordable to anyone (of course i'm parafrazing)
but it is true.
this goverment aint lookin to HEAL IT'S WOUNDED
there are more PRISONS bein built than SCHOOLS... WHY???
why is it so hard to see that the goverment thrives
on all you see as wrong... why is that???
when it comes to the drug trade, who do you think allowed
it in the first place. WARS NEED MONEY... SECRET WARS NEED
DRUG MONEY...
COVERT OPs and all that shit.
BAGGY CLOTHES HIDE DRUGS AND GUNS. i don't sag, and think it's rediculous, but i fully understand the need to hide some shit.
theses were not problems while they were contained in the BLACK COMMUNITY, again i tell you SHIT JUST BACKFIRED.
this also goes back to the usage of the NIGGA as a term of affection.
when it was a hurtful word (the word ni**er) there was never the outrage at it's being used, but we changed it to something that We could identify with and it BECAME a
BAD THANG...
listen, all the shit that was done in the dark, is now commin to lite.
the past has caught up, and it's claiming the innocent
victims of the 'BURBS... whowouldathunkit...


First off: Goddamn, Bad... you make a good fucking point.

Second: As you know, I would like to legalize drugs and eliminate the need for many, many prison cells that are being occupied by non-violent drug offenders. I would prefer that all the money saved on prisons and law enforcement be used for education. I believe that a good education can solve many of the problems that face our society.

What do you think is the most important way to change things?
SUPERJOINT RITUAL - http://www.superjointritual.com
A Lethal Dose of American Hatred
Reply #51 posted 11/19/02 11:37am

Paisley

4LOVE said:

The person best to ask is the white kid who doesn't have any reason to be a thug.Most people become thugs out of a friendship or bond with their neighborhood.They usually are poor and do crime because they cannot get a job and see it as the only way to get decent money.Prince said it best "Who's to blame when he's got no place to go and all he's got is the sense to know that a life of crime will help him BEAT YOU IN THE RACE".This is how it was in th past.Now the media has glamorized it and made it COOL.Now everybody wants to be a thug.Kids have always had a fascination with gangsters and thugs because of how they are portrayed.Also you can't judge a person by their clothes now.The people in the media and government are the biggest thugs to me.I have alot of friends who look "thuggish" and do more charity work than most will do in a lifetime.They just like the style.And NO! i am not a thug,i have never been to jail for anything before anyone asks.I have had a steady job since i was 18.And Ice i remember you playing the part of a gangster on here smile
Well said 4heart.
Reply #52 posted 11/19/02 11:40am

yamomma

Moderator
Learn to properly talk thug in China...






[This message was edited Tue Nov 19 11:49:03 PST 2002 by yamomma]
© 2013 Yamomma®
All Rights Reserved.
Reply #53 posted 11/19/02 11:48am

rdhull

joelmarable said:

Record companies should bring it 2 a halt, because art is not imatating life anymore,life is imatating art in a very sick way. Making blacks look as if we all are thugs and cant play instruments, and thats not the deal.


Only ignorant people think that is a representation of a population...although there's a lot of ignorant people who think that.
[This message was edited Tue Nov 19 11:50:36 PST 2002 by rdhull]
Roger Ebert:rest in peace
Reply #54 posted 11/19/02 11:51am

applekisses

rdhull said:

applekisses said:

Wow...
Very good points on this thread. I agree with those who say that the whole 'rough guy' status (notice I'm not saying 'image' yet) started in the lower-income and poor areas of the country. In the United States, those areas have historically been populated by immigrants and other ethnic minorities.
When some people are pressured to make the choice between committing a crime and feeding/housing their families, in my opinion, the weaker of character choose crime.
Both my father's and mother's families came to this country during the Great Depression (I was a 'change of life' baby so my parents are most likely older than most of yours) both of my grandfathers died when my parents were young and both of my grandmothers spoke very broken English. My Italian grandmother had 10 kids to raise and my Hungarian grandmother had 4 kids to raise. NONE of my uncles or aunts and neither of my parents resorted to crime to make up for what they were missing. In fact, the worst thing my father and his brothers did was take potatoes from the neighbors garden and wait for lumps of coal to fall off of the passing train cars so that they could heat their house.
In my opinion, the whole 'Thug' thing is a cop out. There ARE sooo many opportunites for EVERY kind of person to get help -- scholarships, grants, finanical aid, food stamps, FIA, WIC, etc, etc, etc -- that I cannot buy the fact that people are FORCED to go out killing and robbing and raping for ANY reason.
I hate to think that this country is going to hell in a handbasket, but when this kind of hell is commercialized...it makes me wonder and fear for our kids.
I think what needs to be examined here is the reasons that people are CHOOSING to do this rather than looking at their alternatives.
Is it because of a lack of good parenting? If so, should the government/social services make more of an effort to aid people who are having parenting problems?
Is it because of the evils of Capitalism? In this country today, the self-esteem of many depends upon what they are wearing or their 'look' -- if you take that to the extreme and say that ONLY this expensive pair of athletic shoes or ONLY this expensive leather jacket will make me feel good about myself...could it be that our economic system is telling us that we need to BUY our self-esteem rather than earn and grow it?
I could go on and on...
Any more ideas?
[This message was edited Tue Nov 19 8:21:19 PST 2002 by applekisses]


Even though I dont fully agree on certain aspects,can you point me to the building where they are selling ways to break it down like that?
[This message was edited Tue Nov 19 10:16:11 PST 2002 by rdhull]


Um...is this a compliment...? smile If so, thanks hug smile
What is it that you don't fully agree with? I'd love to open that to discussion. smile How do you feel about it?
Reply #55 posted 11/19/02 12:08pm

rdhull

applekisses said:


Even though I dont fully agree on certain aspects,can you point me to the building where they are selling ways to break it down like that?
[This message was edited Tue Nov 19 10:16:11 PST 2002 by rdhull]


Um...is this a compliment...? smile If so, thanks hug smile
What is it that you don't fully agree with? I'd love to open that to discussion. smile How do you feel about it?


Yes it is a compliment...some things I dont agree with include the immigrant issue... Folks in America at the time in the past (and not so distant past) were more willing to accept and work along any immigrant coming to the staes over a black person who was already living in the states. That right there changes everything. I dont want to go into a long drawn out discussion about that but thats one thing I found flawed in your assessment. But in general you have the right idea about character etc...imo.

edith
[This message was edited Tue Nov 19 12:08:58 PST 2002 by rdhull]
Roger Ebert:rest in peace
Reply #56 posted 11/19/02 12:16pm

Natasha

Better to use one's Mind instead of One's fists . It's Stupid all the Fighting and Strife. Look what is Happening with Gangs and look what happened with Tupac and the other Rappers. Why do you have to Prove Anything to Anybody? I'd rather Deal with Prince's philosophy. Let a woman be a woman let a Man be a Man. He's right . I'd rather be a Feminine lady any day.
Reply #57 posted 11/19/02 12:27pm

rdhull

Natasha said:

Better to use one's Mind instead of One's fists . It's Stupid all the Fighting and Strife. Look what is Happening with Gangs and look what happened with Tupac and the other Rappers.


And you think this is only endemic to the hip hop and urban communities? Just because that is what is reported prominantly doesnt mean just as much if not more is happening in the areas where the streets are lined up with houses that have their lawns lined with white picket fences or redneck pool halls etc.Get some perspective.[/quote]

. I'd rather be a Feminine lady any day.


I'd rather you be one too...Still Waiting-Prince
Roger Ebert:rest in peace
Reply #58 posted 11/19/02 12:29pm

applekisses

rdhull said:

applekisses said:


Even though I dont fully agree on certain aspects,can you point me to the building where they are selling ways to break it down like that?
[This message was edited Tue Nov 19 10:16:11 PST 2002 by rdhull]


Um...is this a compliment...? smile If so, thanks hug smile
What is it that you don't fully agree with? I'd love to open that to discussion. smile How do you feel about it?


Yes it is a compliment...some things I dont agree with include the immigrant issue... Folks in America at the time in the past (and not so distant past) were more willing to accept and work along any immigrant coming to the staes over a black person who was already living in the states. That right there changes everything. I dont want to go into a long drawn out discussion about that but thats one thing I found flawed in your assessment. But in general you have the right idea about character etc...imo.

edith
[This message was edited Tue Nov 19 12:08:58 PST 2002 by rdhull]


Well, thanks for the nice compliment smile I appreciate it.
I do agree with you in the way that some immigrants may have been more accepted by society than some black folks who were already living in the US. My mother (who is Italian) went to school in the US in the 1940s with black kids when schools were still segregated. So, I don't think that her family was treated TOO differently.
But, still, does that mean that one should resort to crime, etc?
Reply #59 posted 11/19/02 12:35pm

rdhull

applekisses said:

I do agree with you in the way that some immigrants may have been more accepted by society than some black folks who were already living in the US. My mother (who is Italian) went to school in the US in the 1940s with black kids when schools were still segregated. So, I don't think that her family was treated TOO differently.
But, still, does that mean that one should resort to crime, etc?


I never said that one should resort to crime..thats why I said I agre with some things such as characte r etc..but thats why I didnt want to get into it becaus e sometimes character doesnt mean shit when you havent been able to eat etc for days because of whatever reasons. That is why I said I cant say and that I agree in "general" not taking into account the differing intricacies and situations of others.
Roger Ebert:rest in peace
Reply #60 posted 11/19/02 12:52pm

00769BAD

IceNine said:

00769BAD said:

IceNine said:

Essence said:

IceNine said:

Essence said:

Damn IceNine, recent rants of yours range from tirades against "Hip-hop", "Baggy clothing", "Ebonics" etc. Is there an agenda tied in with your concerns? smile


Yep... my agenda is this:

I want to know what is happening with society. Why are we seemingly purposely embracing criminality, illiteracy and things of that nature. This goes across race, so I don't want anyone accusing me of being racist because I ask these questions.

I see these things and I wonder why they exist...


I wouldn't say "racist", it's just your current concerns and queries seem firmly fixed on certain areas of scoiety right now. Is it really all that puzzling to you?


Yes, it is VERY puzzling to me... I am also puzzled by the fucking Jerry Springer/WWF white culture... I don't get that shit at all! I will never understand it, so I guess I need to stop worrying about it...

my question to you then would be WHUT IS GOOD FOR SOCIETY
and how can it be implamented in a fassion that will
apeal to the masses???
THIS IS A RETOICAL QUESTION,
because if it was that easy, it would have been done already.
LET ME CLARIFY THAT!!!
MALCOM said we live in a society that is capable of manufactering cars that would last for twenty years
afordable to anyone (of course i'm parafrazing)
but it is true.
this goverment aint lookin to HEAL IT'S WOUNDED
there are more PRISONS bein built than SCHOOLS... WHY???
why is it so hard to see that the goverment thrives
on all you see as wrong... why is that???
when it comes to the drug trade, who do you think allowed
it in the first place. WARS NEED MONEY... SECRET WARS NEED
DRUG MONEY...
COVERT OPs and all that shit.
BAGGY CLOTHES HIDE DRUGS AND GUNS. i don't sag, and think it's rediculous, but i fully understand the need to hide some shit.
theses were not problems while they were contained in the BLACK COMMUNITY, again i tell you SHIT JUST BACKFIRED.
this also goes back to the usage of the NIGGA as a term of affection.
when it was a hurtful word (the word ni**er) there was never the outrage at it's being used, but we changed it to something that We could identify with and it BECAME a
BAD THANG...
listen, all the shit that was done in the dark, is now commin to lite.
the past has caught up, and it's claiming the innocent
victims of the 'BURBS... whowouldathunkit...


First off: Goddamn, Bad... you make a good fucking point.

Second: As you know, I would like to legalize drugs and eliminate the need for many, many prison cells that are being occupied by non-violent drug offenders. I would prefer that all the money saved on prisons and law enforcement be used for education. I believe that a good education can solve many of the problems that face our society.

What do you think is the most important way to change things?

the dye has been cast...
i don't pretend to know whut will cure the ills of our society.
as i look at the later post, and esspeacially reading 4LOVE's post i see that there is not just the NEED here
in america, but it is world wide.
these things have been going on forever
the TANG, TRIADs, YAKUZA, MAFIA theses are just a few
of the better known criminal elements that have been in play for , i dare say, CENTURIES.
capitolizim is the way of the world, thus it creates CLASSES. as long as there are CLASSES the will be strife.
as long as there is strife, there will be 'creative ways'
to overcome that strife.
i'm not religious, but i am under the impression that
we as a people need to first CHECK OUR SELVES, heal your
own wounds. then help heal those closest to you.
this thing of everone reachin out for THUGISM is only a
way that is bringing about a togetherness of all people.
TO CLARIFY...
more people are in tune to the plite of BLACKS IN AMERICA.
to that end they have seen the ways we have delt with our
advercities and most likely feel that TOTAL ANARCHY is the
only answer.
i do not condone murder in any form, but that won't stop it. murder is as much a way of life as death it's self.
1. spend money on education (schools)(teachers)
2.bring about a polocy for education in the prison system.
3.stop fuckin the lil people with taxes.
4. give a welfare family a 'lump sum and out' deal
(they did it for the vietnamese who came here fo sho)
i'm no economist, so i don't really have answers, but again
i don't see where it would be advantagious for this
gov. to do anything to FIX things. there money is made on the PLITE of IT'S PEOPLE...
I AM King BAD a.k.a. BAD,
YOU EITHER WANNA BE ME, OR BE JUST LIKE ME

evilking
Reply #61 posted 11/19/02 4:17pm

SweeTea

Ok, I'll bite. Thugs or the thug life is nothing new. There have been thugs throughout history, but called different names (ie. Missionaries (The worst kind of thug),Mobsters). But it seems to be given a more negative connotation now that young black urbanites have become synomonous with a "thug". I despise thugs of any sort especially the young black kids.

It breaks my heart to see what has become of my young black brothers and sisters, as I know this is not their true nature. Black people by nature are peace loving people. These kids have been brainwashed into thinking that in order to make themselves heard they must imitate the brashness of the Al Capone syndrome, when in reality these kids are just confused.

I blame a lot of this on the parents (including all the single parent homes in which most of these kids were raised), on the media and the record companies for glorifying this type of behavior.

These kids are so confused they don't realize this is a trick that has worked twofold, by taking away their true nature which in turn leads to their enslavement and captivity.


It's a sad situation, but I feel a change coming alone,,,



.
"Use this tool to control the masses w/guaranteed success: Divide/Conquer =>No Communication cuz we are Divided =>Misunderstanding cuz we don't Communicate =>We can't Agree we only Misunderstand =>Chaos cuz we can't Agree. Chaos-an evil tool indeed!"
Reply #62 posted 11/19/02 4:41pm

SweeTea

IceNine said:

Essence said:

IceNine said:

Essence said:

Damn IceNine, recent rants of yours range from tirades against "Hip-hop", "Baggy clothing", "Ebonics" etc. Is there an agenda tied in with your concerns? smile


Yep... my agenda is this:

I want to know what is happening with society. Why are we seemingly purposely embracing criminality, illiteracy and things of that nature. This goes across race, so I don't want anyone accusing me of being racist because I ask these questions.

I see these things and I wonder why they exist...


I wouldn't say "racist", it's just your current concerns and queries seem firmly fixed on certain areas of scoiety right now. Is it really all that puzzling to you?


Yes, it is VERY puzzling to me... I am also puzzled by the fucking Jerry Springer/WWF white culture... I don't get that shit at all! I will never understand it, so I guess I need to stop worrying about it...


These so-called "white" issues that you mention are only the very, very, very tip of the ice. The real problem with society now and in the last 400 years of so, is the white man's need to dominate because of his conscious and unconscious fear of annilation. He is afterall, a minority on this planet, and he doesn't realize that he can coexist on this earth with the rest of us in harmony. The white man is ruled by fear and is the earth's most longstanding thug.

I realize that this a very touchy subject, but it needs to be addressed and analyzed if this earth is to survive. We cannot continue to live like this.

People try to skate around this issue, make excuses, defend a lost cause or what have you, but in reality we all know why the world is in the shape that it is in and unless we face the facts and deal with it, this thread we're in will continue til the end of time, literally.

I know some people will call me a racist, I am not and I will not engage in a long drawn out debate to prove it. Seeing the world for what it is and stating the facts does not make me a racist, it makes me a realist.

Now Ice, if you truly want to know why society is the way that it is, check yourself in a mirror, what do you truly see?





.
"Use this tool to control the masses w/guaranteed success: Divide/Conquer =>No Communication cuz we are Divided =>Misunderstanding cuz we don't Communicate =>We can't Agree we only Misunderstand =>Chaos cuz we can't Agree. Chaos-an evil tool indeed!"
Reply #63 posted 11/19/02 4:45pm

vgallo6

Thugs look stupid. I always see them all dressed up in colorful clothes bought from the gangster store owned by asians. Walking in the street talking on cell phones. I guess some girls like that.
Good topic Ice!
Peace and Love!
Reply #64 posted 11/19/02 4:49pm

tackam

IceNine said:

. . .my question is: "why don't people realize that living the 'thug life' is not anything desirable?"


If you identify with an historically opressed group, and you get two offers of power that look like this:

a)get a gun, show solidarity with fellow members of opressed group
or
b)work for years and years to get an education and then spend most of your time at a job, the majority of whom are the historical opressors

which is going to look better?


Doves,
Mel!ssa
Reply #65 posted 11/19/02 4:52pm

teller

tackam said:

b)work for years and years to get an education and then spend most of your time at a job, the majority of whom are the historical opressors
And the tax burden doesn't make those years any more appealing, because suddenly you're "the rich!" And "the rich" must be soaked!!! sad
Fear is the mind-killer.
Reply #66 posted 11/19/02 7:51pm

00769BAD

teller said:

tackam said:

b)work for years and years to get an education and then spend most of your time at a job, the majority of whom are the historical opressors
And the tax burden doesn't make those years any more appealing, because suddenly you're "the rich!" And "the rich" must be soaked!!! sad

you gotta be kiddin...
taxes for the rich, that's laughable.
funny how they use that shit to hold
americans hostage.
If you raise our taxes We'll leave the country.
whut the fuck ever.
however i look at regular people trying to make a living,
and they pray that they get paid by the week
so the taxes won't be so much
I AM King BAD a.k.a. BAD,
YOU EITHER WANNA BE ME, OR BE JUST LIKE ME

evilking
Reply #67 posted 05/26/03 6:18pm

00769BAD

[Snip. Flame removed. Ian]
I AM King BAD a.k.a. BAD,
YOU EITHER WANNA BE ME, OR BE JUST LIKE ME

evilking
Reply #68 posted 05/26/03 6:23pm

Blackcat

SweeTea said:

IceNine said:

Essence said:

IceNine said:

Essence said:

Damn IceNine, recent rants of yours range from tirades against "Hip-hop", "Baggy clothing", "Ebonics" etc. Is there an agenda tied in with your concerns? smile


Yep... my agenda is this:

I want to know what is happening with society. Why are we seemingly purposely embracing criminality, illiteracy and things of that nature. This goes across race, so I don't want anyone accusing me of being racist because I ask these questions.

I see these things and I wonder why they exist...


I wouldn't say "racist", it's just your current concerns and queries seem firmly fixed on certain areas of scoiety right now. Is it really all that puzzling to you?


Yes, it is VERY puzzling to me... I am also puzzled by the fucking Jerry Springer/WWF white culture... I don't get that shit at all! I will never understand it, so I guess I need to stop worrying about it...


These so-called "white" issues that you mention are only the very, very, very tip of the ice. The real problem with society now and in the last 400 years of so, is the white man's need to dominate because of his conscious and unconscious fear of annilation. He is afterall, a minority on this planet, and he doesn't realize that he can coexist on this earth with the rest of us in harmony. The white man is ruled by fear and is the earth's most longstanding thug.

I realize that this a very touchy subject, but it needs to be addressed and analyzed if this earth is to survive. We cannot continue to live like this.

People try to skate around this issue, make excuses, defend a lost cause or what have you, but in reality we all know why the world is in the shape that it is in and unless we face the facts and deal with it, this thread we're in will continue til the end of time, literally.

I know some people will call me a racist, I am not and I will not engage in a long drawn out debate to prove it. Seeing the world for what it is and stating the facts does not make me a racist, it makes me a realist.

Now Ice, if you truly want to know why society is the way that it is, check yourself in a mirror, what do you truly see?





.


Goddamn!!! lol
Reply #69 posted 05/26/03 6:26pm

Blackcat

00769BAD said:


Don't thugs bassically depend on their ability to call
on their crooked cop freinds to get rid of the Compatition.
Then come back out smellin like a rose, because they didn't have to get their hands dirty???


Now that's what I'd call a pussy silly

URL: http://prince.org/msg/100/28322

Date printed: Wed 23rd Jul 2014 7:19pm PDT