independent and unofficial
Prince fan community
Welcome! Sign up or enter username and password to remember me
Forum jump
Forums > Prince: Music and More > TechDirt: "Prince Discovers That If You Charge People To Connect With You, You Actually Have To Connect"
« Previous topic  Next topic »
Page 1 of 2 12>
  New topic   Printable     (Log in to 'subscribe' to this topic)
Author

Tweet     Share

Message
Thread started 04/03/10 4:31pm

BartVanHemelen

avatar

TechDirt: "Prince Discovers That If You Charge People To Connect With You, You Actually Have To Connect"

(The article has a bunch of links which explain the terms they use, so do yourself a favor and go to the original and follow the links there instead of asking dumb questions here.)

http://www.techdirt.com/a...8851.shtml

Prince Discovers That If You Charge People To Connect With You, You Actually Have To Connect

from the well-that-didn't-work dept

If you've never seen Kevin Smith's long, but quite funny, explanation of his week of making a documentary for Prince, it's quite worth watching -- just to get a sense of "Prince World" and the way Prince will have big ideas that he starts, but never does much to follow through on. With that as background, it's really not surprising to read about the absolute disaster that his recent "fan club" business model experiment became:

The result, LotusFlow3r.com, resembled a galactic aquarium, featuring doodads like a rotating orb that played videos. The promise: fans who ponied up $77 for a year-long membership would receive the three new albums, plus an ensuing flow of exclusive content, like unreleased tracks and archival videos.

A year later, LotusFlow3r has gone dark, thousands of Prince's fans are very annoyed and Clay has been dismissed from Prince's kingdom almost as abruptly as he was invited in.


The mess got a lot more attention lately when a supposed "glitch" (uh, ok...) started automatically charging fans credit cards for membership renewals, despite the fact that the site had gone dormant and people had specifically asked not to have their membership renewed.

There was a point, a few years back, where it looked like Prince would be the first rockstar to really embrace these sorts of new business models. He definitely was doing all kinds of experiments that involved getting people to pay for scarcities, often while giving the music away for free. And many of the experiments looked like they were done in a way to better connect with fans. But it quickly became apparent that Prince was missing a big element in all of this, in that while he wanted to connect with fans and give them a reason to buy, he also wanted to be massively controlling about it.

The one thing that artists who are successfully embracing these models are discovering is that, in part, you have to go with the flow, and see where your fans take you. Part of the connecting is listening to the fans, rather than just telling them how they must enjoy your works. Prince has never been particularly good at that aspect of the fan relationship. We've talked about the value of improvisational business modeling, where you do regular experiments -- and Prince certainly does that, but at no point does he seem to pay attention to how the fans react to the improvisations.

In the end, he seems entirely focused on his own whims, and while that may be entertaining for himself, it appears to be pissing off an awful lot of fans. If you're Prince, and you've got fans to spare, perhaps that's fine. But it's hardly a model worth emulating.

But there's a bigger point here as well. If you're trying to use a CwF+RtB-style business model, you have to actually connect with fans in some manner. You can't just leave them high and dry. Is that difficult? Sure. Does it take work? Absolutely. But isn't that part of the point? The value that's built up from genuine connections is what makes these business models work. Taking people's money and then leaving them feeling empty handed may be the way the recording industry used to work, but it's not the path forward.
© Bart Van Hemelen
This posting is provided AS IS with no warranties, and confers no rights.
It is not authorized by Prince or the NPG Music Club. You assume all risk for
your use. All rights reserved.
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #1 posted 04/03/10 4:56pm

jdcxc

The argument brought up valid points. In the end, it was an experiment that failed, but I think the bloviating has been ridiculous. I have been disappointed with both the NPGMC and LF. But to say they were ripoffs (people have actually done the math) of the century is pure exaggeration.

I took my two teenage nephews to see the latest Hollywood big budget deafening and poorly written piece of crap (Sherlock Holmes) and spent $70 in one night. People need to put things in perspective.

I hope he eventually get's it right. What are your ideas for the next version and before you answer, you have to take into account Prince's many strengths and weaknesses?
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #2 posted 04/03/10 5:51pm

CallMeCarrie

avatar

It looks like the journalists are getting it about right. These articles pretty much summarize what orgers have been saying for months.

I guess that is what I love so much about his live performances. He connects most when he is on stage, so.....bring on the next tour!
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #3 posted 04/03/10 5:56pm

skywalker

avatar

jdcxc said:

The argument brought up valid points. In the end, it was an experiment that failed, but I think the bloviating has been ridiculous. I have been disappointed with both the NPGMC and LF. But to say they were ripoffs (people have actually done the math) of the century is pure exaggeration.

I took my two teenage nephews to see the latest Hollywood big budget deafening and poorly written piece of crap (Sherlock Holmes) and spent $70 in one night. People need to put things in perspective.

I hope he eventually get's it right. What are your ideas for the next version and before you answer, you have to take into account Prince's many strengths and weaknesses?



Agreed. It also depends on perspective. If nothing else, Lotusflow3r membership got me into Paisley Park quick and easy to see Prince perform. That all alone was worth the price of the Lotusflow3r membership.
"New Power slide...."
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #4 posted 04/03/10 7:05pm

myfavorite

avatar

how many members did lotusflow3r have???
THE B EST BE YOURSELF AS LONG AS YOUR SELF ISNT A DYCK[/r]

**....Someti
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #5 posted 04/03/10 8:29pm

ernestsewell

There's a former sticky, but still open thread, that this should be posted in: http://prince.org/msg/13/333128
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #6 posted 04/04/10 1:25am

BartVanHemelen

avatar

jdcxc said:

The argument brought up valid points. In the end, it was an experiment that failed, but I think the bloviating has been ridiculous. I have been disappointed with both the NPGMC and LF. But to say they were ripoffs (people have actually done the math) of the century is pure exaggeration.


Except nobody said that.
© Bart Van Hemelen
This posting is provided AS IS with no warranties, and confers no rights.
It is not authorized by Prince or the NPG Music Club. You assume all risk for
your use. All rights reserved.
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #7 posted 04/04/10 5:16am

jdcxc

BartVanHemelen said:

jdcxc said:

The argument brought up valid points. In the end, it was an experiment that failed, but I think the bloviating has been ridiculous. I have been disappointed with both the NPGMC and LF. But to say they were ripoffs (people have actually done the math) of the century is pure exaggeration.


Except nobody said that.


Have you been reading the postings over the last week?

Incidentally, you seem to have a little computer expertise, have you ever put in a bid for running/designing the next Prince website?
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #8 posted 04/04/10 5:56am

SPOOKYGAS

avatar

jdcxc said:

BartVanHemelen said:



Except nobody said that.


Have you been reading the postings over the last week?

Incidentally, you seem to have a little computer expertise, have you ever put in a bid for running/designing the next Prince website?



GOD PLEASE NO NO NO ..NOT BART HE ABSOLUTELY WANTS 2 FUCK PRINCE UP THE ASS.
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #9 posted 04/04/10 3:40pm

BartVanHemelen

avatar

jdcxc said:

BartVanHemelen said:



Except nobody said that.


Have you been reading the postings over the last week?


Go ahead, lemme see the posts that said so. When will you lot figure out that you need EVIDENCE that back up what you say?
© Bart Van Hemelen
This posting is provided AS IS with no warranties, and confers no rights.
It is not authorized by Prince or the NPG Music Club. You assume all risk for
your use. All rights reserved.
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #10 posted 04/04/10 5:12pm

optimus

I really cant stand prince.....but ill always love his music...well half of it lol
Everybody's looking 4 the ladder
Everybody wants salvation of the soul
The steps U take are no easy road
But the reward is great
4 those who want 2 go
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #11 posted 04/04/10 5:55pm

RodeoSchro

jdcxc said:

The argument brought up valid points. In the end, it was an experiment that failed, but I think the bloviating has been ridiculous. I have been disappointed with both the NPGMC and LF. But to say they were ripoffs (people have actually done the math) of the century is pure exaggeration.

I took my two teenage nephews to see the latest Hollywood big budget deafening and poorly written piece of crap (Sherlock Holmes) and spent $70 in one night. People need to put things in perspective.

I hope he eventually get's it right. What are your ideas for the next version and before you answer, you have to take into account Prince's many strengths and weaknesses?


For some, $77 is a lot of money. I respect that.

But for most of us, the bigger issue is getting what was promised or insinuated. It's about keeping one's word and following through.

As one ages, one finds out that one's reputation is far, far more valuable than anything else one owns. And for those of us that value reputations so much, we tend to hold those that fail to honor their word in low regard.

I still like Prince a lot, and a part of me wants to believe there's a good reason Prince's website floundered.

But going from only what Prince has let us know (basically nothing), there's no other conclusion to reach other than Prince handled his business in an unmanly and unsavory manner.

I make no apologies for saying that.
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #12 posted 04/04/10 7:27pm

cborgman

avatar

totally agree. as i have said numerous times, this man has NO sense of how to run a business. no model, customer feedback gets ignored, surrounded by sycophants and ignoring anyone else.
[Edited 4/4/10 19:28pm]
Power tends to corrupt; absolute power corrupts absolutely. - Lord Acton
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #13 posted 04/04/10 7:44pm

meow85

avatar

jdcxc said:

The argument brought up valid points. In the end, it was an experiment that failed, but I think the bloviating has been ridiculous. I have been disappointed with both the NPGMC and LF. But to say they were ripoffs (people have actually done the math) of the century is pure exaggeration.

I took my two teenage nephews to see the latest Hollywood big budget deafening and poorly written piece of crap (Sherlock Holmes) and spent $70 in one night. People need to put things in perspective.

I hope he eventually get's it right. What are your ideas for the next version and before you answer, you have to take into account Prince's many strengths and weaknesses?

How in the hell did it possibly cost you $70 to see Sherlock Holmes?!? Did Robert Downey Jr and Jude Law personally escort you!?!? omfg


The solution to Prince's problems with the internet are simple, and profitable. Give the fans what they want, and acknowledge their feedback. It works succesfully for other bands.
[Edited 4/4/10 19:46pm]
"A Watcher scoffs at gravity!"
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #14 posted 04/04/10 7:45pm

meow85

avatar

RodeoSchro said:



For some, $77 is a lot of money. I respect that.

nod

I never signed up in the first place, but for me $77 is more than a full day's pay. That's quite a lot little lady was asking some of us to part with.
"A Watcher scoffs at gravity!"
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #15 posted 04/04/10 7:46pm

meow85

avatar

cborgman said:

totally agree. as i have said numerous times, this man has NO sense of how to run a business. no model, customer feedback gets ignored, surrounded by sycophants and ignoring anyone else.
[Edited 4/4/10 19:28pm]

What the man needs is a manager.
"A Watcher scoffs at gravity!"
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #16 posted 04/04/10 9:05pm

Paris9748430

meow85 said:

cborgman said:

totally agree. as i have said numerous times, this man has NO sense of how to run a business. no model, customer feedback gets ignored, surrounded by sycophants and ignoring anyone else.
[Edited 4/4/10 19:28pm]

What the man needs is a manager.


OK, then what? Nobody's gonna force him to do something he doesn't want to do.
JERKIN' EVERYTHING IN SIGHT!!!!!
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #17 posted 04/04/10 10:00pm

NuPwrSoul

SPOOKYGAS said:

jdcxc said:



Have you been reading the postings over the last week?

Incidentally, you seem to have a little computer expertise, have you ever put in a bid for running/designing the next Prince website?



GOD PLEASE NO NO NO ..NOT BART HE ABSOLUTELY WANTS 2 FUCK PRINCE UP THE ASS.


LMAO! This is almost signature-worthy! lol
"That...magic, the start of something revolutionary-the Minneapolis Sound, we should cherish it and not punish prince for not being able to replicate it."-Dreamshaman32
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #18 posted 04/04/10 10:06pm

cborgman

avatar

Paris9748430 said:

meow85 said:


What the man needs is a manager.


OK, then what? Nobody's gonna force him to do something he doesn't want to do.

that is the problem with him as a person. he refuses to concede power to anyone other than his yes men. never a good position for an artist with little business skill.
Power tends to corrupt; absolute power corrupts absolutely. - Lord Acton
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #19 posted 04/04/10 10:10pm

Paris9748430

cborgman said:

Paris9748430 said:



OK, then what? Nobody's gonna force him to do something he doesn't want to do.

that is the problem with him as a person. he refuses to concede power to anyone other than his yes men. never a good position for an artist with little business skill.



Any suggestions?
JERKIN' EVERYTHING IN SIGHT!!!!!
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #20 posted 04/04/10 10:35pm

cborgman

avatar

Paris9748430 said:

cborgman said:


that is the problem with him as a person. he refuses to concede power to anyone other than his yes men. never a good position for an artist with little business skill.



Any suggestions?

pray he comes to his senses by divine miracle? it's more likely than him learning his lesson from LF after not learning so many times in the past.
Power tends to corrupt; absolute power corrupts absolutely. - Lord Acton
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #21 posted 04/05/10 12:18am

meow85

avatar

cborgman said:

Paris9748430 said:




Any suggestions?

pray he comes to his senses by divine miracle? it's more likely than him learning his lesson from LF after not learning so many times in the past.

I don't see him changing his ways anytime soon, sadly. It'd be nice if he would because the way he's carrying on he's just hurting himself business-wise.
"A Watcher scoffs at gravity!"
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #22 posted 04/05/10 2:52am

dreamshaman32

avatar

jesus if he only webcast his shows, opened up the vault with streaming content audio and video with a lot of historic backdrops to the classic stuff, we'd pay 100$ yearly-give it to itunes and let them do it geesh, how hard can it be? lol.Whenever i feel myself making something more complicated than it should be, trying to outhink the room i remind myself of prince-worlds more talented than 99% of the music population-skrews up everything he touches that dont have 6 strings on it.
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #23 posted 04/05/10 3:12am

LondonStyle

avatar

In the end, he seems entirely focused on his own whims, and while that may be entertaining for himself, it appears to be pissing off an awful lot of fans. If you're Prince, and you've got fans to spare, perhaps that's fine. But it's hardly a model worth emulating


Ha..Ha...yep Prince has got fans to spare ....I think that's the problem people on her think if they stop buying Prince's stuff he gonna stop selling his music .....Prince fans come and go ...then come back...

He's been in the business over 30 years people....sh*t ...his fan base is worldwide... why some of the so called "fans/fams" on here think they have rights to his personal business dealings I don't know..... lol

When has Prince written on the web asking you to stop smoking or qustion how you pay your bills ..... lol ...
[Edited 4/5/10 3:13am]
Da, Da, Da....Emancipation....Free..don't think I ain't..! London 21 Nights...Clap your hands...you know the rest..
James Brown & Michael Jackson RIP, your music still lives with us!
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #24 posted 04/05/10 4:02am

purplecorvette
1

Paris9748430 said:

cborgman said:


that is the problem with him as a person. he refuses to concede power to anyone other than his yes men. never a good position for an artist with little business skill.



Any suggestions?


Old Fans For sale
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #25 posted 04/05/10 4:37am

jdcxc

meow85 said:

jdcxc said:

The argument brought up valid points. In the end, it was an experiment that failed, but I think the bloviating has been ridiculous. I have been disappointed with both the NPGMC and LF. But to say they were ripoffs (people have actually done the math) of the century is pure exaggeration.

I took my two teenage nephews to see the latest Hollywood big budget deafening and poorly written piece of crap (Sherlock Holmes) and spent $70 in one night. People need to put things in perspective.

I hope he eventually get's it right. What are your ideas for the next version and before you answer, you have to take into account Prince's many strengths and weaknesses?

How in the hell did it possibly cost you $70 to see Sherlock Holmes?!? Did Robert Downey Jr and Jude Law personally escort you!?!? omfg


The solution to Prince's problems with the internet are simple, and profitable. Give the fans what they want, and acknowledge their feedback. It works succesfully for other bands.
[Edited 4/4/10 19:46pm]


Movie Tickets for 3 People = $30.00
Food/Beverages for 3 = $40.00
Total = $70.00
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #26 posted 04/05/10 5:13am

HatrinaHaterwi
tz

avatar

LondonStyle said:


Ha..Ha...yep Prince has got fans to spare ....I think that's the problem people on her think if they stop buying Prince's stuff he gonna stop selling his music .....Prince fans come and go ...then come back...


Maybe once upon a time that was undoubtedly true, but the disappointing sales of LotusFlow3r as a website membership and 3CD set are very telling of a new and different tale! One that he'd be wise to pay attention to and do something to fix or perhaps not. shrug

I guess he can always replace us dissenters with all the new "fans" he's recruiting in the parking lots of grocery stores. giggle
I knew from the start that I loved you with all my heart.
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #27 posted 04/05/10 9:36am

dreamshaman32

avatar

LondonStyle said:

In the end, he seems entirely focused on his own whims, and while that may be entertaining for himself, it appears to be pissing off an awful lot of fans. If you're Prince, and you've got fans to spare, perhaps that's fine. But it's hardly a model worth emulating


Ha..Ha...yep Prince has got fans to spare ....I think that's the problem people on her think if they stop buying Prince's stuff he gonna stop selling his music .....Prince fans come and go ...then come back...

He's been in the business over 30 years people....sh*t ...his fan base is worldwide... why some of the so called "fans/fams" on here think they have rights to his personal business dealings I don't know..... lol

When has Prince written on the web asking you to stop smoking or qustion how you pay your bills ..... lol ...
[Edited 4/5/10 3:13am]

The last laugh aint his London, he's in financial pickles and trust me most of us eh hem "find" the good prince shit, shit that he should be profiting from but refuses to allow anyone to legitimately set the shit up. I'll betcha he wished he'd taken advantage of 2004 more effectively than he has, you cant go to the hall twice and after the super bowl, it would have been nice if casual fans could download a whole ton of shit from a special itunes prince storefront.
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #28 posted 04/05/10 10:01am

Bohemian67

avatar

purplecorvette1 said:

Paris9748430 said:




Any suggestions?


Old Fans For sale


That's a brilliant title for a cd....
"Free URself, B the best that U can B, 3rd Apartment from the Sun, nothing left to fear" Prince Rogers Nelson - Forever in my Life -
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #29 posted 04/05/10 10:10am

Bohemian67

avatar

Techdirt as the name for a website, where anyone gets to submit a story.
I'll give this one a miss.

And Londonstyle you're right....fans come and go....
Prince just doesn't want to be commercial anymore and that's his right. Besides he's been there and done it. Sure we'd like him to connect more with the fans but the methodology of the fans just ain't gonna do the trick. cool
"Free URself, B the best that U can B, 3rd Apartment from the Sun, nothing left to fear" Prince Rogers Nelson - Forever in my Life -
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Page 1 of 2 12>
  New topic   Printable     (Log in to 'subscribe' to this topic)
« Previous topic  Next topic »
Forums > Prince: Music and More > TechDirt: "Prince Discovers That If You Charge People To Connect With You, You Actually Have To Connect"